On 22/08/03 10:32, in article
[email protected], "XOR" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> Fans won't work at 108° F and 60% humidity in closed spaces.
    >
    > Do apartment units in Paris not have windows?


Ours have always had a cross draft possibility, windows in back and front,
so air does move through.

The French type windows do not take easily American type A/C units, so
one has portables with a long pipe one hangs out the window.

We have never bothered getting one.

Earl

On 22/08/03 15:29, in article [email protected],
"devil" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Far less than would have died without air conditioning. And Chicago is
    >> not a warm climate.
    >
    > Chicago in summer, not warm?


As a native, I will say it sure can be, and the winters are worse.

Earl

On 22/08/03 21:17, in article [email protected],
"Zane" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Fans are good for modest high temperatures, but can sometimes be counter
    > productive for avoiding death. They don't slow down the rate of water loss
    > leading to dehydration, and can often fool a person into not worrying
    > because they're not drenched in sweat.


We found it worked up to the top temperatures, which as 40-42.

The next step I use is sleeping with a wet towel over me,
I have used that in Greece and it works.

Earl

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Gregory Morrow writes:
    >
    >> That is because they are "European"....
    >
    > It is because they are stupid and superstitious.

My colleague who refuses to use the a/c is neither stupid nor
superstitious. But if what to believe your statement to be true that's your
problem.

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Emilia <emilia@(itain't)easy.com> writes:
    >
    >> Air conditioning is more widely used in Portugal?
    >> I don't think so!
    >
    > When you know for sure, report back to us.

How about when YOU know for sure you get back to us. I think I have more
experience of live in Portugal than you do. But, if you want to be nit
picky, why don't you tell us your stats showing your statement that a/c is
used more widely than in France to be true.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:34:24 GMT, "Jim Morris"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Can't Stand the Heat?
    >TO LISTEN TO THE FUSS Europeans are making about their weather,
    >anyone would think that it was actually hot over there.

I would just like to say, to the non-US persons on this NG, and on
behalf of the great majority of people here, that we are very sorry to
hear about elderly people dying in France and other parts of Europe
from the heat wave.

There were similar significant deaths in Chicago, among the shut-in
population, a few years back from a heat wave of similar proportions.
We have no reason to point fingers, even if it were appropriate to do
so, which it is not.

I think this is double true because the parts of Europe where this
occurred are simply not used to sustained high summer heat. Where I
live (Atlanta, Georgia) we get this kind of heat on a regular basis,
and so it is much less likely to cause deaths. Just like when we get
two or three inches of snow, our city practically shuts down, because
it is not used to it. A very heavy snowfall would doubtless kill
thousands of people here.

We had an unseasonably cool summer in the southern US. Go figure.

Again, our deepest sympathies for this terrible occurrence.


--

"This is the sort of thing people will like who like this sort of thing."
- Abraham Lincoln

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:22:59 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

    > devil writes:
    >
    >> Chicago in summer, not warm?
    >
    > That's not what I said. I said that Chicago is not a warm climate.

Getting into semantics, eh. OK, I guess at this point, we know you. :-)

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:58:03 +0200, Emilia wrote:

    > Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >> Emilia <emilia@(itain't)easy.com> writes:
    >>
    >>> Air conditioning is more widely used in Portugal?
    >>> I don't think so!
    >>
    >> When you know for sure, report back to us.
    >
    > How about when YOU know for sure you get back to us. I think I have more
    > experience of live in Portugal than you do. But, if you want to be nit
    > picky, why don't you tell us your stats showing your statement that a/c is
    > used more widely than in France to be true.

Three or four years ago, we spent ten days in Portugal. In a couple of
the hotels where we stayed, they had some sort of a big Japanese AC
appliance in the room, which we never mamaged to get cold air from.

Maybe it was just for decoration? Or maybe it was too cold for them to
turn their chilled water loop on?

Italy used to be a bit like that too, and even Japan: default AC setting
at 24-25C.

It seems they always design AC in such a way that when you really need it,
the AC system can't cope. Reminds me of Brussels airport too. On a hot
day, though luck.

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:43:28 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

    > Gregory Morrow writes:
    >
    >> That is because they are "European"....
    >
    > It is because they are stupid and superstitious.

Don't you know that drafts are evil? They'll end up killing you.

Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Jenn writes:
    >> the stores ran out of them -- so the public health officials should have
    >> seen that they were acquired and available
    > How would they do this after the stores ran out of them? They could not
    > foresee the heat wave.

Import them from the USA? I just bought a fan for my office about a week ago
and the shop had them piled to the rafters. Someone could have put them all
on a ship a week into the heat wave and they would have been in Europe with
time to spare.

Of course, they came from China, and one would imagine they have one or two
spares sitting around in a warehouse somewhere too.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 22/08/03 21:17, in article [email protected],
    >"Zane" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Fans are good for modest high temperatures, but can sometimes be counter
    >> productive for avoiding death. They don't slow down the rate of water loss
    >> leading to dehydration, and can often fool a person into not worrying
    >> because they're not drenched in sweat.
    >We found it worked up to the top temperatures, which as 40-42.

You're a better man than I am.

I play golf here in Texas at least twice a week and have to drink a lot
about every 20 minutes to keep from getting dehydrated when it gets to
about 95 F. At the temperatures you're talking about I can't replace all
the water I sweat. I use a rule that if I can't urinate properly after
nine holes then I had better cool off awhile. 42 C for a long period is
scary in terms of dehydration risk. My 40-something neighbor came home
with a body temperature of 102 F recently after a round of golf. He was
lucky he didn't die.

There are a number of heat related deaths here every year, even among the
people who are used to living in the heat -- outdoor workers, sports
participants, people out working in their yard, and some elderly folk. The
elderly deaths are often fairly healthy, but obstinant, ones who don't like
a/c or who don't like to pay the electric bills. (The power companies have
had to institute programs to forgive or reduce power costs to the elderly
because of this.) There are civic organizations who regularly check on
"shut-ins" to see that their a/c units are functioning well and are being
used.

The scary think about dehydration is how quickly you can die from it.
Often it's too late by the time you notice anything is wrong.

Please cool at least one room for the future. :-)

Zane

devil writes:

    > Getting into semantics, eh.

No. Chicago in summer is obviously going to be warmer than Chicago
overall. But Chicago is in a cool climate, overall.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Earl Evleth writes:

    > ... the main thing I WORRY ABOUT is the winter weather.
    > That is when the death rates rise three fold for some
    > older people (see below).

The death rate rises much more slower as the weather grows colder than
it does as the weather grows hotter. For a given deviation from the
mean, heat kills much more effectively than cold.

    > The only solution is to install A/C in the homes for emergency use.
    > Unless we have a steady of heat waves in the future, general air
    > conditioning should not be necessary.

Why restrict A/C to emergencies? If the temperature becomes too high,
turn on the A/C.

    > Enfin, ce spécialiste du vieillissement préconise d'installer la
    > climatisation partout, systématiquement dans les maisons de retraite et
    > pourquoi pas dans les logements. Du bon sens, preuve épidémiologique ÃÂ
    > l'appui. «Si l'espérance de vie est élevée dans des pays chauds comme
    > Singapour et Hongkong, c'est grâce àla climatisation», conclut le
    > démographe.

I agree. But I don't think it should be limited to old people.

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Earl Evleth writes:

    > We found it worked up to the top temperatures, which as 40-42.

How do you know?

    > The next step I use is sleeping with a wet towel over me,
    > I have used that in Greece and it works.

Wet towels dry quickly if they cool effectively; if they dry slowly,
they do not cool.

--
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Emilia <emilia@(itain't)easy.com> writes:

    > My colleague who refuses to use the a/c is neither stupid nor
    > superstitious.

What is your colleague's reason for not using it?

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