"Hilary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > Well said Malc, the last couple of long hauls I took I just wanted to
    > > get
    > my
    > > head down and skipped the first 'meal' entirely. I reclined the seat
    > > just
    > a
    > > bit so as not to intrude too much on the person sat behind but enough
    > > for
    > me
    > > to relax a bit.
    > >
    > > As for the increase - yeah I'd pay it, £50 or so added for an extra 3
    > > inch
    > > or £100 for double, giving 40 inches or so, no problem with me.
    > But who should pay ?
    > Me for wanting to recline or the person behind me for wanting knee room ?
    > and on that subject do the seats in BA WT+ and VS Premium economy (or
    > other
    > carriers economy+) actually recline any more than their standard seats ?

According to one of my colleagues, all you get is more legroom. So this
means you can politely recline your seat all the way without infringing
too much on the personal space of the person behind you.

BA, VS, BD, and BR all offer about 7 - 8 inches of extra legroom and one
less seat per row (in other words, on an Airbus widebody, 2-3-2 instead of
2-4-2, and on a 777 2-4-2, or a 747, 2-4-2. United's Economy Plus is only
extra legroom (5")

Hilary

"Jim Ley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:13:26 GMT, "Col" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >>As for the increase - yeah I'd pay it, £50 or so added for an extra 3 inch
    >>or £100 for double,
    > 100quid is about what I spend on a weekend away all in, you may be
    > willing to pay it, but most people aren't.

True - that's the problem with air travel today. People will abandon one
airline for another to save $5 - but my experience between London and the
U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were always
sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will pay
the extra to justify it. Cost between NYC/WAS and LHR, by the way, is about
$150 / UKL 75 each way on that route.
    > Jim.

David wrote:

    > "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Just try to go to the
    >
    >>toilet when they have thier seat back into your face.
    >>--
    >
    >
    > Of course I should have said get out your seat to go the toilet.
    >


Not a problem. Just get a firm grip to each side of their head. Or get
a grip on their head.

Jeff Hacker wrote:
    > According to one of my colleagues, all you get is more legroom. So this
    > means you can politely recline your seat all the way without infringing
    > too much on the personal space of the person behind you.

Unless you're in the last row of premium economy where your reclining will
impact the chap behind you who isn't is premium economy (unless there is a
bulkhead between the 2 sections).

Also, to be pedantic, if you pay for an extra 5" of space, you'll complain
when the guy in front of you takes your extra 5" by reclining :-)

And if the tray table is still hooked to the seat in front of you, the extra
leg room still doesn't change the fact that at full recline, your usable tray
table space is reduced.

And at one point, the extra leg room makes a tray table too far to be usable
unless the tray table is anchored to your own seat (stowed in armrest). But
generally, you don't see that on coach seats. (except for bulkhead/exit row seats).

Nik wrote:

    >
    > Non-reclining seats should be obligatory on all short trips and on long ones
    > the seats should only be able to recline AFTER meals are served.

Actually, on long trips the seats should be far enough apart
so tilting the seat back wouldn't put your head in the lap
of the passenger behind you!

Miss L. Toe wrote:

    >
    >
    > NO - minimum seat measurements should be sufficient to allow 99.5% of adults
    > to sit comfortably when the seat in front is fully reclined.

Indeed! And wide enough to accommodate shoulders wider than
twenty inches, with armrests wide enough so passengers in
adjacent seats could both use them!

    >
    >

    > >> There is a choice and it is called Premium Economy, World Traveller Plus
    > >> etc
    > >> etc.
    > >
    > > On some carriers on some routes. Most routes do *not* have a premium
    > > economy service so you're left with economy (a few hundred) or business
    > > class (a couple of thousand). Big difference.
    > >
    > True. But that is one consideration when choosing an airline on a given
    > route. British Airways, BMI, Virgin Atlantic and Eva Air all offer a
    > "Premium Economy" section, and United still has "Economy Plus" (extra
    > legroom only). That is a definite consideration for me when flying
    > internationally.

But unless you're flying transatlantic or on a small selection of other
routes there is no option for premium economy.

Hilary

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Jeff Hacker wrote:

    >
    > "Hilary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Well said Malc, the last couple of long hauls I took I just wanted to
    > > > get
    > > my
    > > > head down and skipped the first 'meal' entirely. I reclined the seat
    > > > just
    > > a
    > > > bit so as not to intrude too much on the person sat behind but enough
    > > > for
    > > me
    > > > to relax a bit.
    > > >
    > > > As for the increase - yeah I'd pay it, £50 or so added for an extra 3
    > > > inch
    > > > or £100 for double, giving 40 inches or so, no problem with me.
    > >
    > > But who should pay ?
    > >
    > > Me for wanting to recline or the person behind me for wanting knee room ?
    > >
    > > and on that subject do the seats in BA WT+ and VS Premium economy (or
    > > other
    > > carriers economy+) actually recline any more than their standard seats ?
    >
    > According to one of my colleagues, all you get is more legroom. So this
    > means you can politely recline your seat all the way without infringing
    > too much on the personal space of the person behind you.
    >
    > BA, VS, BD, and BR all offer about 7 - 8 inches of extra legroom and one
    > less seat per row (in other words, on an Airbus widebody, 2-3-2 instead of
    > 2-4-2, and on a 777 2-4-2, or a 747, 2-4-2. United's Economy Plus is only
    > extra legroom (5")

The seat wasn't actually different on the BA flight my colleague took.
Same seat, same width, just more legroom.

Hilary

"Martin WY" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:42:14 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >"Hilary" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> > Well said Malc, the last couple of long hauls I took I just wanted to
    > >get
    > >> my
    > >> > head down and skipped the first 'meal' entirely. I reclined the seat
    > >just
    > >> a
    > >> > bit so as not to intrude too much on the person sat behind but enough
    > >for
    > >> me
    > >> > to relax a bit.
    > >> >
    > >> > As for the increase - yeah I'd pay it, £50 or so added for an extra 3
    > >inch
    > >> > or £100 for double, giving 40 inches or so, no problem with me.
    > >>
    > >> But who should pay ?
    > >>
    > >> Me for wanting to recline or the person behind me for wanting knee room
?
    > >>
    > >> and on that subject do the seats in BA WT+ and VS Premium economy (or
    > >other
    > >> carriers economy+) actually recline any more than their standard seats
?
    > >
    > >>According to one of my colleagues, all you get is more legroom. So this
    > >>means you can politely recline your seat all the way without infringing
    > >>too much on the personal space of the person behind you.
    > >
    > >wrong - its my personal space that my seat was designed to recline into -
    > >the person behind is infringing my liberty if he stops me using it :-)
    > >
    > I wish I was behind you sometime, I would ensure your liberty was
    > infringed, you would be sent flying forward, and fast - very often,
    > as I constantly got up to go to the bathroom or for a drink from the
    > back.

Might I sugest you pick a bulkhead seat next time you fly.
Or make Ryanair your carrier of choice.

    > Thus the need for seats that don't recline.
    > Still I feel that my personal space includes the space immediately above
    > my person when it is seated in a seat provided by the airline. You have
    > as much responsibility to respect my personal space as I have to respect
    > yours. In any case, when you try to drive your seat into my body expect
    > a response.

Including the bit above your feet ?

"Martin WY" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:44:34 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >I had the misfortune last weekend to travel on one of those new Ryanair
    > >planes with the non-reclining seats, and no-seat back pockets.
    > >
    > >It was a real pain in the neck ! Especially when trying to have a nap.
    > >
    > >Also they handed out those plastic coated 'menus', and, with no seat back
    > >pocket people put them on the floor and then put their shoes on them,
which
    > >no doubt had previously trodden in dog-poo at some time. I wonder if they
    > >get disinfected after every leg ?
    > >
    > >The safety announcement even said to read the safety leaflet in the seat
    > >back pocket in front of you !
    > >
    > >Well that was enough for me - that was my last voluntary Ryanair flight.
    > >
    > >Bye Bye MOL.
    > >
    > You actually want to recline , and - have a nap, on a Ryanscare
    > flight?
    > Ryanscare dont fly to anywhere long enough to need a nap,

Surely that depends what unearthly hour you got out of bed in the morning to
make it to the airport for a 06:40 flight !

    > is only a
    > shorthaul Euro flight, and if you can put up with anything up to
    > 3hours flying without having a nap, then find a full fare carrier and
    > go business class.

As I said, that is now what I will do, but including other lo-cost's, it
doesn't have to be business class just a few degrees of seat recline is
enough for me.

    > Gawds what people want for a next to nil fare.

Maybe I shouldn't complain as I paid 1p plus taxes, but I am prepared to pay
more than 1p for a reclining seat, and will be doing so from now on.

    > You ought to have been made to fly Dan Dare and Caledonian 707
    > Charters to Hong Kong at 189 TOB. then you would have known what
    > cheap seat flying really was like. You get what you pays for.,

and I will be paying for something better from now on.

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:42:17 -0000, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >> You ought to have been made to fly Dan Dare and Caledonian 707
    >> Charters to Hong Kong at 189 TOB. then you would have known what
    >> cheap seat flying really was like. You get what you pays for.,

Ah, fond memories of flight CA7766 SIN-KHI-LGW a 707 operated by
Caledonian//BUA as they called themselves at the time, they had just
merged and were still using the CA designator before switching to BR.
Thunderstorm over Europe, I was sick in the toilet, I was very young
at the time though, but I believe it was cheap.
--==++AJC++==--

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:09:23 -0000, "JohnT"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> Dan Dare Toulouse-London had the best short haul business class in
    >> Europe, the planes consumed more champagne per mile than kerosene.
    >> --
    >> Martin
    >Dan Dare used to fly a Comet between NCL and LGW and, where I worked near the
    >flight path to NCL at the time it went overhead rattling like a bagful of
    >hammers. Later they replaced it with one of the first BAE146s, on which route I
    >flew frequently, and that was a very comfortable aircraft.

They used BAC 111 for Toulouse route.
--
Martin

Following up to Miss L. Toe

    >I had the misfortune last weekend to travel on one of those new Ryanair
    >planes with the non-reclining seats,

Excellent, at last a plus for Ryan.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

In message <[email protected]>, at 09:32:45 on Wed, 8 Dec
2004, Miss L. Toe <[email protected]> remarked:
    >Including the bit above your feet ?

Having once had someone in the seat in front of me dump a can of coke on
my feet (and hand baggage), perhaps...
--
Roland Perry