Following up to Miss L. Toe

    >Thats 73" !! no wonder you can't get out of your seat without pulling on the
    >headrest of the seat in front and catapulting the person in front out of
    >their seat when you let go - How much does someone with a 73" waist weigh ?

no idea, my waist is 34".
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Following up to [email protected]
    > >>There used to be enough room to move your legs to get up. At 6'4" I
have a
    > >>hard time sitting, let alone getting up from most of the seats in
airplanes
    > >>to day.
    > >
    > >I can sympathise with you, I have a hard time sitting and I am only
    > >6'1"
    > same height as me, you wont see me on long haul.
    > --
    > Mike Reid
    > Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can
email us@ this site
    > Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a
spamtrap

Sometimes you have to long haul. 14.5 hours in the air SFO to Hong Kong.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > but my experience between London and the
    >U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were always
    >sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will pay
    >the extra to justify it.

In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and up
the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is why they
have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already, start
to put them back on all the others.

-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

Well, every flight I have taken in World Traveller Plus
which is British Airways Premium economy
(of which there are only about 6 rows of
2-4-2 combinations on the 747's)
The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
"cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
floating around the cabin.
Once from Singapore to Sydney Australia in
"cattle class" economy, I had a row of three seat to myself
and immediately "upped" the armrests and made a nice bed
of the three seats. Slept like a log for the 7 hr flight.
That situation doesnt happen too often though.
But I find the extra I have to pay for the premium class
guarantees me a lot more restful flight on the long haul flights
ie LHR - BKK or LHR -SIN which are both around
13hrs flying time.

Freda

--
Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake

"Lansbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > but my experience between London and the
    > >U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were
always
    > >sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will
pay
    > >the extra to justify it.
    > In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and
up
    > the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is why
they
    > have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already,
start
    > to put them back on all the others.
    > -
    > Lansbury
    > www.uk-air.net
    > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:43:33 +1030, "Freda" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
    >"cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
    >floating around the cabin.

There are a limited number of people who are prepared to pay. However when you
convert the whole economy section to extra legroom, there isn't enough willing
to pay the extra. I think AA fares increased by about 10% initially and then
slipped back down. They found that until they matched the other airlines fares
they have a drop off in sales.

The empty seats in BA economy goes to prove that point as BA fares tend to be
at the top end of the range on the routes they fly.

-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:31:32 +0000, Lansbury <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:43:33 +1030, "Freda" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
    >>"cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
    >>floating around the cabin.
    >There are a limited number of people who are prepared to pay. However when you
    >convert the whole economy section to extra legroom, there isn't enough willing
    >to pay the extra. I think AA fares increased by about 10% initially and then
    >slipped back down. They found that until they matched the other airlines fares
    >they have a drop off in sales.
    >The empty seats in BA economy goes to prove that point as BA fares tend to be
    >at the top end of the range on the routes they fly.

Perhaps if they took out the empty rows of seats and increased the
seat pitch they would get more passengers?
--
Martin

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:32:48 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    >On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:31:32 +0000, Lansbury <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:43:33 +1030, "Freda" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>The empty seats in BA economy goes to prove that point as BA fares tend to be
    >>at the top end of the range on the routes they fly.
    >Perhaps if they took out the empty rows of seats and increased the
    >seat pitch they would get more passengers?

The last 4 BA long-haul flights I've flown were all almost completely
full in economy, Tokyo was full both ways, Delhi was full one way, and
had 1 spare seat returning (which we actually moved too after one of
our two seats had a broken recliner that stayed down.

Jim.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:32:48 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    >On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:31:32 +0000, Lansbury <[email protected]>
    >wrote:
    >>On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:43:33 +1030, "Freda" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
    >>>"cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
    >>>floating around the cabin.
    >>There are a limited number of people who are prepared to pay. However when you
    >>convert the whole economy section to extra legroom, there isn't enough willing
    >>to pay the extra. I think AA fares increased by about 10% initially and then
    >>slipped back down. They found that until they matched the other airlines fares
    >>they have a drop off in sales.
    >>The empty seats in BA economy goes to prove that point as BA fares tend to be
    >>at the top end of the range on the routes they fly.
    >Perhaps if they took out the empty rows of seats and increased the
    >seat pitch they would get more passengers?

But they'd have nowhere to sit them. Unless they put the empty rows
back in, perhaps...

Brian

Lansbury wrote:

    > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>but my experience between London and the
    >>U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were always
    >>sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will pay
    >>the extra to justify it.
    >
    >
    > In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and up
    > the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is why they
    > have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already, start
    > to put them back on all the others.
    >
    > -
    > Lansbury
    > www.uk-air.net
    > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup



I suspect that it is significantly affected by which route is under
discussion. You also may be seeing seats filled with status passengers
who are upgraded but who are not actually paying for the rate for the
seats. If it is the latter it may not be worth it for the airline just
to keep the status folks happy. In any case I have faith that the
marketing folks are paying some attention.

"Lansbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> but my experience between London and the
    >>U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were
    >>always
    >>sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will
    >>pay
    >>the extra to justify it.
    > In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and
    > up
    > the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is why
    > they
    > have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already,
    > start
    > to put them back on all the others.
\\

Not true at all. American didn't raise fares when they took the seats out,
and they didn't lower fares when they decided to put them back in. But the
comparison is flawed because American's flights aren't all long haul.
American's "MRTC" program included planes used on one-hour long flights as
well as planes used on longhauls. And the increase was only in legroom.
Not seat width, which is the case on Virgin's, BA's, and Eva's premium
purchase.

Jeff
    > -
    > Lansbury
    > www.uk-air.net
    > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

"Lansbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:43:33 +1030, "Freda" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
    >>"cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
    >>floating around the cabin.
    > There are a limited number of people who are prepared to pay. However when
    > you
    > convert the whole economy section to extra legroom, there isn't enough
    > willing
    > to pay the extra. I think AA fares increased by about 10% initially and
    > then
    > slipped back down.

Absolutely incorrect. AA did not try to raise fares when they went to MRTC.
There hope was to attract more business travelers willing to pay a premium
(non-restricted fares). Since AA carries a higher percentage of business
travelers than many other carriers, this was a fairly good bet. But they
did not raise fares.

They found that until they matched the other airlines fares
    > they have a drop off in sales.
    > The empty seats in BA economy goes to prove that point as BA fares tend to
    > be
    > at the top end of the range on the routes they fly.

Also not true. BA has to be competitive. There are many markets (including
intra-European markets) where BA's advance purchase fares are the same or
even lower than some of the discounters.

You need to research your facts better.
    > -
    > Lansbury
    > www.uk-air.net
    > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

"Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Lansbury wrote:
    >> On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>but my experience between London and the U.S. East Coast in Premium
    >>>Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were always sold, even if there
    >>>were empty seats in steerage. So enough people will pay the extra to
    >>>justify it.
    >> In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and
    >> up
    >> the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is why
    >> they
    >> have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already,
    >> start
    >> to put them back on all the others.
    >> - Lansbury www.uk-air.net
    >> FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup
    > I suspect that it is significantly affected by which route is under
    > discussion. You also may be seeing seats filled with status passengers
    > who are upgraded but who are not actually paying for the rate for the
    > seats. If it is the latter it may not be worth it for the airline just to
    > keep the status folks happy. In any case I have faith that the marketing
    > folks are paying some attention.

Actually, I'm not aware of any airline with a premium international product
upgrading status folks - they can sell all of these seats in advance.
    >

"Freda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Well, every flight I have taken in World Traveller Plus
    > which is British Airways Premium economy
    > (of which there are only about 6 rows of
    > 2-4-2 combinations on the 747's)
    > The seats have always been fully occupied whilst in
    > "cattle class" there are usually quite a few spare seats
    > floating around the cabin.
    > Once from Singapore to Sydney Australia in
    > "cattle class" economy, I had a row of three seat to myself
    > and immediately "upped" the armrests and made a nice bed
    > of the three seats. Slept like a log for the 7 hr flight.
    > That situation doesnt happen too often though.
    > But I find the extra I have to pay for the premium class
    > guarantees me a lot more restful flight on the long haul flights
    > ie LHR - BKK or LHR -SIN which are both around
    > 13hrs flying time.
    > Freda
    > --
    > Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake
    > "Lansbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:59:53 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > but my experience between London and the
    > > >U.S. East Coast in Premium Economy (Virgin) is that all 28 seats were
    > always
    > > >sold, even if there were empty seats in steerage. So enough people
will
    > pay
    > > >the extra to justify it.
    > >
    > > In fact that isn't the case as AA found out when they took seats out and
    > up
    > > the fares to cover the reduced capacity. People wouldn't pay which is
why
    > they
    > > have put the seats back on some aircraft and will, or may have already,
    > start
    > > to put them back on all the others.
    > >
    > > -
    > > Lansbury
    > > www.uk-air.net
    > > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

I was lucky in my Asia / Oz trips to have corporate pay for business class.
I did buy business class for my wife when she went along. One trip, 747SP
and there were only about 125 people on board. I went back to coach and had
the whole 5 seats in the middle empty and slept about 8 hours of the trip.
Even more comfortable than Pan Am business class. Only trip ever that I saw
that scenario,

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:45:41 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You need to research your facts better.

I researched them very well. On the systems in my office at Heathrow Airport.

It was quite clear that at the start AA fares went up, in fact AA staff at LHR
told me in advance this would happen.

On the subject of BA you need to be able to read and understand English. I
didn't say they were more expensive on every route I said "BA fares tend to be
at the top end of the range on the routes they fly".

-
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

"Lansbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 23:45:41 GMT, "Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>You need to research your facts better.
    > I researched them very well. On the systems in my office at Heathrow
    > Airport.

You are just plain wrong. AA's fares also "tend to be at the top end of the
range" but they weren't raised to finance MRTC. Nothing that wasn't in
place long before that.
    > It was quite clear that at the start AA fares went up, in fact AA staff at
    > LHR
    > told me in advance this would happen.
    > On the subject of BA you need to be able to read and understand English. I
    > didn't say they were more expensive on every route I said "BA fares tend
    > to be
    > at the top end of the range on the routes they fly".


    > -
    > Lansbury
    > www.uk-air.net
    > FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup