Hatunen

On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 20:23:54 GMT, "DALing" <daling43[delete]@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >ah what the heck - sort of remembered "chemin de fer" which I always thought meant
    >iron horse - since 'fer" is iron, I just thought chemin was horse. besides, whadaya
    >expect after 30+ years??

Iron horse is an Americanism. Many languages use the "road of iron" name: eisenbahn,
chemin de fer, ferroviaria, rautantie, etc.

************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******

Evelyn Vogt Gam

David Horne wrote:
    >
    > hamilton <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > really? the supermarkets in Europe I have frequented have been like old fashioned
    > > small 50s supermarkets in the US -- in the US you find in nicer supermarkets,
    > > sushi bars, olive bars, salad bars, delis where prepared food may be purchased --
    > > fancy presentations of all sort of things -- I have seen little of that in Europe
    >
    > You certainly have that in the UK- though for some reason the sushi which is sold
    > hardly ever contains sashimi- i.e. the fish is rarely raw- don't know why- maybe
    > local health laws?

I'm not a sushi fan (cooked OR raw fish), and I would hesitate to buy it in an
American big-city supermarket - who knows how long it has been around? (Even if
"freshly made", how fresh were the ingredients?) For the same reason, I prefer "flash
frozen" fish (meaning cleaned, filleted and frozen on the boat soon after it's
caught) to any that's sold as "fresh" in Los Angeles supermarkets.

    > David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO david (at)
    > davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Jbm

For what it's worth, what did I miss while in the US? Decent cheese, bacon, and black
pudding. Oh, and baked beans.

And what do I miss in the UK? Decent bagels, and some microbrews. (Although also give
me some Pabst Blue Ribbon, for nostalgia's sake...)

OK, when people are done with food (and I think we already covered public transport
recently), what about: a) tiny fridges vs. huge fridges and b) water pressure?

Take care

Jon

--
Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University Spanish and Portuguese
Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected] >, Mika
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Be a little more specific and tell us about your experiences. Where did you travel,
    >where did you shop? Tourists are usually not concerned with grocery shops much. What
    >countries are you talking about?

I guess you are asking not about the countries where I traveled (since tourists are
not concerned with grocery shops much) but about the places where I spent enough
time for grocery shopping to be essential. That would be Paris and the suburbs (I
spend about two months a year there), Birmingham and London in the UK and Bochum in
Germany. Of course, I've been to supermarkets in other places. Lessee... Brussels,
Bruges, Amsterdam, Munich, Berlin, a few small towns in Germany, Rome, Barcelona,
Lisbon, Salisbury, Egham and Windsor in the U.K. I am probably forgetting a few.

    >What in particular was it that you could not find in Europe?

Latin American and Asian foods, mostly. The rest is comparable with America. You
know, stuff like Thai eggplants, several kinds of fresh chilis (pasillas,
especially), good corn tortillas, curry pastes, Chinese radishes, etc. Most of
these would be sold in a typical supermarket in California. What else? Wine
selection is heavily skewed towards France everywhere but the U.K. where there is a
decent choice of Australian, NZ and South African wine (still, Americas are barely
represented). Fewer kinds of fish, but more difficult to compare since the species
are different. Overall, the difference between supermarkets in Europe and America
is not as dramatic as the difference between restaurants, but it's still there.

Can you think of any product sold in Europe that you would not be able to find
in the U.S.?

    >And before you tell me that I know zip about the USofA, I've lived there for 7
    >years.

I'll tell you that you know zip about the USofA when you start telling me that
American steakhouses are Argentinian in origin and there is no German chocolate in
the stores. Until then, you have the benefit of the doubt

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected]>, Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >There was one in Brussels I never caught the name of, fairly strong and "smelly",
    >more or less spreadable, and IMO altogether marvelous. The outside was deep gold in
    >color, with a convoluted appearance (kind of like a brain), the inside a deep
    >cream-color, the flavor indescribably delicious!

Was it cylindrical? Sounds like a goat cheese crottin. Very good stuff. I know only
one creamery in America that produces something similar: Redwood Hill Farm up in
Sebastopol, Calif. They call it California crottin. Pretty tasty.

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected] >, Mika
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Bread in Germany is better than in New York, but not as good as our locally
    >> baked bread in California (from bakeries like Acme and Bay Breads - all sold in
    >> regular supermarkets).
    >
    >You mean that mushy stuff that the toothless can eat, no doubt.

So you are claiming that Acme and Bay Breads bake the mushy stuff that the
toothless can eat. Ahem. Excuse me, pardner, is this opinion based on some kind of
personal experience or just follows from the general principle that bread in
America cannot be good because you declared so?

    >Not much into flag waving, but GER is to bread what France is to cheese. Too many
    >varieties to list.

German bread is good. But so is the locally baked American bread. Supermarkets
around here tend to have their own bakeries, and also sell breads from specialty
bakers like Acme and Grace. The best of all, though, is the bread sold at farmers'
markets. This is cheating a little bit, since farmers' markets are not
supermarkets, but many Europeans don't buy their bread at supermarkets, either.

    >> Only if you consider Valrhona, Cote d'Or, Droste, Lindt, etc. American (I guess
    >> Lindts are made in America).
    >
    >Spruengli Lindt are Swiss (Zurich). Big factory right on the lake, which also
    >happens to be an interesting dive spot.

I meant that Lindts sold in America are made in America. There is a Lindt factory
across the bay from me, and another one somewhere in New Hampshire, I think.

    >> Nothing in Europe even remotely compares with major US metro areas, like Los
    >> Angeles or New York.
    >
    >Such as? Put up, Shmaty.
^^^^^^ Is this supposed to be some subtle, withering insult?

    >Be a bit more specific. Waaay ahead exactly how? What exactly would you like to see
    >improved on your next trip to Europe?

I'd like to see more non-European food, both in supermarkets and (especially)
restaurants. I'd like to see every world cuisine represented. I'd like a good
hamburger. I'd like good sushi and tempura. I'd like a BBQ. I'd like good wine from
some place other than France. I'd like an honest taco. I'd like better variety of
darker beer and fewer euro-lagers. I suppose that somewhere between Helsinki and
Cabo da Roca, there is one of each, but I'd like them all in one place, please.

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected]>, Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >That must be a matter of personal taste - I've yet to find ANY American chocolate
    >that equals any I've found in Belgium! (And "Godiva", which is so exhorbitantly
    >priced here, is not particularly well-regarded there.) I LIKE good American
    >chocolates - See's, Fanny Farmer, Russell Stover - but Belgian chocolates (pralines)
    >are quite different from their American relatives, and IMO better.

I don't like See's at all, certainly not in comparison with Belgian chocolate, and
I've never heard the other two. I guess America is a big country

    >(And of course, anywhere, when you buy it from the chocolatier rather than the same
    >brand pre-packaged elsewhere, it's better, because it's fresher.)

If you are ever up in San Francisco, check out XOX truffles on Columbus. Better
than any European chocolate I tried.

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected]>, Jenn
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >American cheese is less diverse partly because of food safety laws which prohibit
    >sales of non pastuerized products -- pasteurized Brie can be bought -- but it sours
    >quickly and because amoniacal. And most Americans don't grow up with smelly cheeses
    >-- they are an acquired taste much like coffee or scotch. You can get bread in the
    >US as good as European bread, but cheese is a problem. My local supermarket has at
    >least 100 varieties of cheese -- but not the wonderful variety of cheese shops in
    >Belgium or France.

Sad but true. Because of the pasteurization issue and the time customs clearance
takes, cheese shops cannot even import fresh French cheeses (there was an article
in the NY Times a few months ago about trying to hunt down unpasteurized
St.Marcellin in Manhattan. Their advice: go to Lyon . Still, it's not *very*
bad. 100 varieties of cheese sounds about right for a supermarket. There is a
small market near here called the Milk Pail that has an amazing selection of
cheeses, including all the main French varieties: reblochon, coulommiers, morbier,
etc. etc. Prices are reasonable, too, which makes shopping there a very painful
experience But a good cheese shop in Paris is better, especially if they do
their own affinage.

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected]>, Wolfgang Schwanke
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Can you think of any product sold in Europe that you would not be able to find in
    >> the U.S.?
    >
    >Katjes Katzenpfoetchen.

Ok, you win. I don't know what it is, and it convincingly demonstrates the
superiority of European supermarkets. Although if you tell me what it is, I'll
probably find it on the upper shelf at Draeger's

    >I said the average American supermarket has no decent chocolate.

... which is not true.

    >I never doubted that it's available somewhere in the country.

... more precisely, in the average supermarket.

And BTW, the difference is not just ethnic foods. Selection of wine and beer is
better in America, too, and in some parts of America even produce is better. Canned
stuff and meats about the same, fish better in America, cheese in Europe, even
though you are still very wrong about ``canned cheese.''

Eric Holeman

In article <[email protected]>, DALing
<daling43[delete]-at-hotmail.com> wrote:

    >Coors (also refered to as "Rocky Mountain Skunk Pee") had a "cult following" until
    >it became widely available.

This was twenty-five years ago. The Coors mystique has long since faded.

    > Most American "boutique brews" (micro-brews) are as about as good as most ordinary
    > German beers.

This isn't an appropriate comparison, as most U.S. microbrews tend to be variations
on English ale styles (ales needn't be fermented as long as lagers, so small
breweries can produce 'em faster). The microbrewers that do lagers generally tend to
be pretty good, and some are excellent, such as the Schell pilsner.

Anyways, the American beer drinker suffers much less today than in years past.

    > By and large, most American beer is overcarbonated IMHO <belch>

This is a matter of local taste. I don't find the carbonation significantly different
from German lagers, but the American ales tend to be more carbonated than their
English counterparts. The worst difference is that they tend to be much more
expensive than in England, and the pints are smaller.
--

Eric Holeman eholatenteractcom Chicago Illinois USA

Vitaly Shmatiko

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Which hits nail on the head, I think, as this "discussion" has pretty much
    >degenerated into the "mine's bigger/better/more varied/more powerful than yours"
    >game played by 3 year olds as in the parallel "My mobile phone system is
    >bigger/better/more extensive than yours" thread. For ****s's sake.......

Not quite. So far only one side has been claiming that the bread on the other side
is fit only for the toothless, there is no good chocolate in the stores and the
only cheese comes from a can. So I prefer to view this ``discussion'' as a kind and
gentle introductory course in American food for the staggeringly ignorant

But I don't deny that it has degenerated into a pointless sandlot fight

Jjp

[email protected] (Vitaly Shmatikov) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Frank Matthews
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >While the usual American Steakhouse is not South American there are bunches of
    > >Argentinian & Brazilian ones opening.
    >
    > True. And they are not very similar to American steakhouses, contrary to what our
    > learned German friend claims.
    >
    > What I haven't seen around here yet is a proper Brazilian churrascaria, waiters
    > in blood-spattered aprons tooling around with steaming hunks of meat on racks
    > Picanha, maminha, all the good stuff. You pay your 30 reais and eat... and eat...
    > and eat... and eat some more. Someone told me there is a good one on Westheimer
    > in Houston, haven't been there myself.

Yes, Churrascos, and yes it's good. You can also get the steak at the owner's other
restaurant, Americas, on Post Oak Blvd.

Jenn

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Vitaly
Shmatikov) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >There was one in Brussels I never caught the name of, fairly strong and "smelly",
    > >more or less spreadable, and IMO altogether marvelous. The outside was deep gold
    > >in color, with a convoluted appearance (kind of like a brain), the inside a deep
    > >cream-color, the flavor indescribably delicious!
    >
    > Was it cylindrical? Sounds like a goat cheese crottin. Very good stuff. I know
    > only one creamery in America that produces something similar: Redwood Hill Farm
    > up in Sebastopol, Calif. They call it California crottin. Pretty tasty.
    >

American cheese is less diverse partly because of food safety laws which prohibit
sales of non pastuerized products -- pasteurized Brie can be bought -- but it sours
quickly and because amoniacal. And most Americans don't grow up with smelly cheeses
-- they are an acquired taste much like coffee or scotch. You can get bread in the US
as good as European bread, but cheese is a problem. My local supermarket has at least
100 varieties of cheese -- but not the wonderful variety of cheese shops in Belgium
or France.

Wolfgang Schwan

[email protected] (Vitaly Shmatikov) writes:

    >>What in particular was it that you could not find in Europe?

    > Latin American and Asian foods, mostly. The rest is comparable with America.

Oh dear, that's what I said all the time: It's about the same, with some
variation in ethnic stuff. You contested this all the time. And now this. I won't
argue what details in ethnic food differ, because I don't care and you'll make
sure you win anyway.

    > Can you think of any product sold in Europe that you would not be able to find in
    > the U.S.?

Katjes Katzenpfoetchen.

    > I'll tell you that you know zip about the USofA when you start telling me that
    > American steakhouses are Argentinian in origin and there is no German chocolate in
    > the stores. Until then, you have the benefit of the doubt

I never claimed the latter. I said the average American supermarket has no decent
chocolate. I never doubted that it's available somewhere in the country.

--
[email protected][email protected]+http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/+IRC:wolfi

feel the rain like an english summer

Wolfgang Schwan

[email protected] (Eric Holeman) writes:

    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > devil <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Another difference is that supermarkets in Europe tend to be much fancier
    >>presentationwise. Emphasis on looks/food presentation, although there is lots
    >>of junk.

    >I'm guessing German supermarkets would be an exception to this rule, but my
    >experience is limited to the Plus stores and the like in the big cities. Perhaps out
    >on the urban fringe things get wilder?

"Plus" and "Aldi" are about price. They just open the card board box and put it
there. And no well known brands, just cheap noname product.

"Regular" supermarkets have different products, a nicer presentation, and also the
occasional stand with a nice woman urging you to taste this wine or that brand of
delikatessen. Possibly even sushi. Some department store chains cultivate this to the
extent that you feel more in a bistro than in a grocery department. Is that what it's
all about? Yes we have that.

Regards

--
[email protected][email protected]+http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/+IRC:wolfi

feel the rain like an english summer