Hatunen

On 2 Aug 2002 14:05:16 -0700, [email protected] (Mika) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Vitaly Shmatikov) wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>Bread in Germany is better than in New York, but not as good as our locally baked
    >>bread in California (from bakeries like Acme and Bay Breads - all sold in regular
    >>supermarkets).
    >
    >You mean that mushy stuff that the toothless can eat, no doubt.

I rather doubt that's what he means at all. There is some very good fresh bread
available at most supermarkets in the San Francisco Bay Area. I miss it now that I've
moved to Arizona.

    >OK, you are a troll.

Not so fast there with the hand waving. The quesiton doesn't go away that esily.

    >Not much into flag waving, but GER is to bread what France is to cheese. Too many
    >varieties to list.

Certainly Germany has wonderful bread, and perhpas a better variety than even in the
Bay ARea, but you can't jsut dismiss bread in the bay Area with a wave of the hand.

************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******

Frank Matthews

jjp wrote:

    > [email protected] (Vitaly Shmatikov) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>In article <[email protected]>, Frank Matthews
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>While the usual American Steakhouse is not South American there are bunches of
    >>>Argentinian & Brazilian ones opening.
    >>>
    >> True. And they are not very similar to American steakhouses, contrary to what our
    >> learned German friend claims.
    >>
    >> What I haven't seen around here yet is a proper Brazilian churrascaria, waiters
    >> in blood-spattered aprons tooling around with steaming hunks of meat on racks
    >> Picanha, maminha, all the good stuff. You pay your 30 reais and eat... and eat...
    >> and eat... and eat some more. Someone told me there is a good one on Westheimer
    >> in Houston, haven't been there myself.
    >>
    >
    > Yes, Churrascos, and yes it's good. You can also get the steak at the owner's other
    > restaurant, Americas, on Post Oak Blvd.
    >

Sorry but Churrascos is Argentinean not Brazilian. Fogo den Chao is one of the
Brazilian. There was one several years ago The General or something like that which
didn't make it.

Frank Matthews

Hatunen

On Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:25:16 -0500, Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >American cheese is less diverse partly because of food safety laws which prohibit
    >sales of non pastuerized products --

Eh? cheese doesn't have to be pasteurized.

************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******

Wolfgang Schwan

Jenn <[email protected]> writes:

    >I have zero recent knowledge of grocery stores in Munich so for all I know they are
    >the Taj Mahal of food vending. I have visited many a supermarket in Paris, London,
    >various parts of Italy and Belgium and never seen a one that exceeds in display or
    >variety the typical suburban American supermarket. In fact they mostly are like what
    >supermarkets in the US were like decades ago. There may be a fabulous one somewhere
    >-- but I have shopped in many in Europe and never seen one to write home about.

What's this fabulous quality you're missing? I didn't find anything fabulous in the
American supermarkets I saw. Except spray canned chees, and outrageous pricing.

Regards

--
[email protected][email protected]+http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/+IRC:wolfi

feel the rain like an english summer

Hatunen

On 2 Aug 2002 21:45:42 GMT, [email protected] (Wolfgang Schwanke) wrote:

    >Jenn <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>I have zero recent knowledge of grocery stores in Munich so for all I know they
    >>are the Taj Mahal of food vending. I have visited many a supermarket in Paris,
    >>London, various parts of Italy and Belgium and never seen a one that exceeds in
    >>display or variety the typical suburban American supermarket. In fact they mostly
    >>are like what supermarkets in the US were like decades ago. There may be a
    >>fabulous one somewhere -- but I have shopped in many in Europe and never seen one
    >>to write home about.
    >
    >What's this fabulous quality you're missing? I didn't find anything fabulous in the
    >American supermarkets I saw. Except spray canned chees, and outrageous pricing.

I'm afraid that puts you in the same category as all those American tourists who
are accused of not seeing the real France/Germany/etc. Were you, perhaps, on a
guided tour?

************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******

Keith Anderson

On 2 Aug 2002 07:22:36 GMT, [email protected] (Wolfgang Schwanke) wrote:

    >[email protected] (Scott) writes:
    >
    >>On 1 Aug 2002 21:06:41 GMT, in rec.travel.air, [email protected] (Wolfgang
    >>Schwanke) wrote:
    >>>
    >>>Somehow this American superiority stuff is boring.
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>> [email protected][email protected]+http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/+IRC:wolfi
    >>>
    >>> feel the rain like an english summer
    >
    >>Somehow this European ,"we're just as good as America" inferiority stuff is boring.
    >
    >Nah, that would be an understatement. "Just as" America would be an insult. We take
    >pride in being different from it.

Which hits nail on the head, I think, as this "discussion" has pretty much
degenerated into the "mine's bigger/better/more varied/more powerful than yours" game
played by 3 year olds as in the parallel "My mobile phone system is
bigger/better/more extensive than yours" thread. For ****s's sake.......

I don't expect to go to the US and find it like Europe, anymore than I expect Germany
to be like Italy.

If cultural/lingusitic differences didn't exist, what would be the point of
travelling anywhere?

As far as I'm concerned, vive la cultural difference.

Jenn

In article <[email protected]>, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > devil wrote:
    > >
    > > DALing wrote:
    > > > so WHAT is "American" food?
    > >
    > > I always thought corn, turkeys and pumpkin were distinctly American?
    > >
    > > (While potatoes and tomatoes are from Peru?)
    >
    > Add to that wild rice (and I think someone already mentioned cranberries). I think
    > most of us are including the entire New World as "America", for this discussion, so
    > you can also include chocolate and avocados.

By this silly discussion, pasta is not Italian because the Chinese invented noodles.
There are rich and varied American cuisins -- by far the best consistently available
steak in the world, served with sweet corn and baked potatoes, barbecue of various
types, cajun cuisine, New England clam bakes and boils, Pacific Northwest smoked
salmon and crab dishes etc etc TEST

Wolfgang Schwan

[email protected] (Hatunen) writes:

    >>What's this fabulous quality you're missing? I didn't find anything fabulous in the
    >>American supermarkets I saw. Except spray canned chees, and outrageous pricing.

    >I'm afraid that puts you in the same category as all those American tourists who
    >are accused of not seeing the real France/Germany/etc. Were you, perhaps, on a
    >guided tour?

So the real America is about supermarkets? Hmm. Well I do consider everyday culture
as an important part of the travel experience, so I pay attention to it wherever I
go. But the supermarkets either in NYC or Honolulu, both of which I saw a section
from, didn't make me go ooh aah (except for the pricing). I was happy with what I got
there though, no complaints. Could it be the supposed difference is mythical?

Regards
--
[email protected][email protected]+http://www.snafu.de/~wolfi/+IRC:wolfi

feel the rain like an english summer

Dubois

"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
    > Jenn wrote:
    > > because we all know that tomatoes originated in China and not in the Americas LOL
    > No, but pasta did! (Although it took the Italians to bring the two together.)

It's a well-known legend that pasta originated in China, and was brought to Italy by
the Venetian explorer and traveler Marco Polo. But macaroni was known in Genoa before
Polo's journey, and there is evidence of Etruscan pasta-making in about 400 B.C.

David Horne

Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque) <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I'm not a sushi fan (cooked OR raw fish), and I would hesitate to buy it in an
    > American big-city supermarket - who knows how long it has been around?

You'd expect there to be a certain degree of cleanliness. In the supermarket in
Boston (Dorchester) where I buy sushi- it's freshly prepared with the actual time
(i.e. hours and minutes) when it was prepared. I do take your point. The thing is,
the sushi on sale in Marks and Spensers or Sainsbury's is a slice of smoked salmon
cooked shrimp over rice, yet costs far more than it does at Shaw's in Dorchester.
Depressing...

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne
(dot) co (dot) uk

Eric Holeman

In article <[email protected]>,
Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >So the real America is about supermarkets? Hmm. Well I do consider everyday culture
    >as an important part of the travel experience, so I pay attention to it wherever I
    >go. But the supermarkets either in NYC or Honolulu, both of which I saw a section
    >from, didn't make me go ooh aah (except for the pricing). I was happy with what I
    >got there though, no complaints. Could it be the supposed difference is mythical?

No, but it could be that you stumbled upon two extreme examples. New York markets
tend to be small because land costs are high, and New Yorkers tend to buy their
produce from produce markets. Hawaii, as others have pointed out, has a very
different ethnic mix from the rest of the U.S.; consequently, the eating habits are
more different from the more Euro-descended parts of the U.S. I wouldn't expect to
find much in the way of cheese in Hawaii simply because many first-generation Asians
can't stand the stuff. Moreover, since Hawaii is far from the U.S. mainland, the time
and cost of shipping would tend to affect what's available.

Anyways, I'm not sure what the point of all this is. There's lots of good food in New
York--pretty much anything you can think of can be ordered somewhere there, with a
better than even chance that you'll get pretty high quality stuff for your
dollar--and I even managed to eat fairly well in Hawaii.

--

Eric Holeman eholatenteractcom Chicago Illinois USA

Eric Holeman

In article <[email protected]>,
Wolfgang Schwanke <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Plus" and "Aldi" are about price. They just open the card board box and put it
    >there. And no well known brands, just cheap noname product.

That's good to know, though it seems that it's generally one of those that catches my
eye as what an American would consider a supermarket. Still, you'll note I left open
the possibility that there was more out there than what I saw.

    >"Regular" supermarkets have different products, a nicer presentation, and also the
    >occasional stand with a nice woman urging you to taste this wine or that brand of
    >delikatessen. Possibly even sushi. Some department store chains cultivate this to
    >the extent that you feel more in a bistro than in a grocery department. Is that what
    >it's all about? Yes we have that.

And that may be part of the misunderstanding here, assuming that there is one. It
seems that in Germany one would tend to pick up fancier stuff in a department store.
Same in Japan, but in the U.S., dept. stores generally don't sell food.
--

Eric Holeman eholatenteractcom Chicago Illinois USA

Eric Holeman

In article <[email protected]>, DuBois <.> wrote:

    >and barley malt). All modern brewers add a fourth ingredient: yeast.

It should be noted that there wasn't much known about yeast in 1516.

    >Many modern German brewers claim (for advertising) to adhere to the law of 1516.
    >This is a crock of ... brew. They all add yeast, not one of the three ingredients
    >specified. But they may adhere to the modern Reinheitsgebot, voluntarily. So they
    >can add any of a long list of additives to their beer.

From what you've said, it seems that adjunct sugars and grains such as corn and rice
are still verboten? Either way, it's certainly possible to make a bad beer while
adhering to the Reinheitsgebot.

--

Eric Holeman eholatenteractcom Chicago Illinois USA

Dubois

DALing wrote:
    >
    > that's for sure - no reinheitsgebot in US Loo-eybrau (and yes, it isn't an
    > "ingredient" - it's a "brewing purity law")

The Reinheitsgobot is a beer MARKETING law, not a purity law. There is no beer
commercially available today that meets the requirements of the original Bavarian
Reinheitsgebot of 1516, which allowed only three ingredients (water, hops, and barley
malt). All modern brewers add a fourth ingredient: yeast.

The modern Reinheitsgebot allows numerous other ingredients. Gypsum and salt can be
added to the water. Hop extract (which usually contains grain alcohol) can be used.
Finings can be used, and their residue can remain in the finished beer.

In top-fermented beer (ale), the list is even longer. Other grain malts (of course --
Weizen beer contains wheat). Cane sugar. Beet sugar. Dextrose. Colorings.

None of these rules applies to beer imported to or exported from Germany. And under a
EU court ruling of 1997, none of these rules can be enforced at all.

Many modern German brewers claim (for advertising) to adhere to the law of 1516. This
is a crock of ... brew. They all add yeast, not one of the three ingredients
specified. But they may adhere to the modern Reinheitsgebot, voluntarily. So they can
add any of a long list of additives to their beer.

Kenneth Crudup

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Vitaly
Shmatikov) says:

    >>What I haven't seen around here yet is a proper Brazilian churrascaria

    >I've been to two here in Southern CA; one in Burbank, and one in Long Beach. For the
    >life of me, I can't think of their names.

Google is my friend:

Burbank:

http://los.angeles.diningguide.net/data/d100688.htm

Long Beach:

http://www.greenfieldchurrascaria.com/longbeach.htm

-Kenny

--
Kenneth R. Crudup Sr. SW Engineer, Scott County Consulting, Los Angeles, CA Home:
4105 E. Willow St. #246, Long Beach, CA 90815-1740 Work: 2052 Alton Parkway, Irvine,
CA 92606-4905 (949) 252-1111 X240