scrubbedexpat091

Its even tricky to find an appropriate therapist even when wanting to self pay.

Trying to find a way to get therapy but its not the easiest finding a therapist well versed in DBT and borderline.

Found a couple just long wait lists.

Seems to be an underserved service.

Does take atleast a masters level education and a good amount of training outside of the degree as well so not exactly a job one can just get......

$125 for a student therapist (not yet graduated and part of their education/degree.) And $190 for a Masters or Phd level therapist/psychologist.

Might be able to manage the student rate once per month.

Wait list is up to 9 months so time to figure out way to pay. They do require an intake at $400 and its not something they waive.

I have the group free via VGH but just need one on one therapy longer term.

VGH is more of a express treatment to get some basic skills so they condense 12 months group into 6 months and reduce weekly therapy to a total of 12.

The treatment for borderline should be.

1 year minimum group and weekly therapy.

The studies on effectiveness are based on 1 year minimum.

I would waive a year of medical care for MSP to cover this but they wont and likely never will.

So much is left out of our healthcare.

scrubbedexpat091

Re DBT from other thread.

Wife is willing to move. Just not sure where. Not a whole lot of decent sized citys in BC and even fewer with affordable housing.

She wants to move to the US but does not fully understand healthcare there and the costs associated with it and I will wont have the earning power. She cant always work.

We are kind of stuck in BC due to disability and no guarantee of getting disability in another province makes a move risky.

Affordable housing is not easy to find. Even smaller citys rents are not what I would call affordable.

Have to keep total costs in mind as well smaller places might be lower rent but more likely going to need a car so smaller places dont always end up cheaper.

I honestly have no soulutuon and I am not able to really even make good decisions. Anything I try ends up not so goood.

I have moved from San Diego to Phoenix back to San Diego then to Milwaulee then back to San Diego then to Canada then back to San Diego back to BC then back to California then to Ontario then back to BC.

I havent had stable housing at any point as an adult which is not good. Tired of moving. Each moves means starting from 0 and its tiring.

Only long term employmemt I had was when I worked direclty for an airline at 5 1/2 years.

Paid horribly 6.94/hr in 1998 when I started and 8.80 5 years later.

But I had flight benefits which gave me freedom and kept me busy on days off which I think helped me a lot. I went somewhere every week.

Once I just flew around the US for 2 days with no destination. Went San Diego to LA to Atlanta to Charlotte to Minneapolis to Las Vegas amd back to San Diego. All at no cost.

Only jobs I spent over a year in were both in the same imdustry.

Oh well.

scrubbedexpat091

Just tired of losing everything and having to always rebuild, cycle and repeat.

My brain is faulty and it will never work like a normal brain, its very common for people with borderline not to be able to keep long term employment, after all really nobody wants to be around someone with a faulty brain and then since nobody at work likes you, it becomes hostile work environment and only solution is to leave the employment to reduce the stress, but then that adds new stress and so on and so on.

Unfortunate the healthcare system doesn't take mental health seriously and doesn't understand the importance of therapy for some mental disorders, medication isn't a fix all like the medical system believes, in their mind there is a medication for all disorders of the brain so they only need to cover psychiatrists and medication and believe therapy has no medical value but studies after study shows the only hope for someone with borderline is long term therapy from therapists well trained and versed in DBT but of course those folks charge a lot, so those most in need are unlikely to be able to access said services.

Even when I had extended health benefits at work, the insurance only covered $300 per year for mental health, that is 2 visits far short of what is needed.

I can treat myself anymore successfully then someone with cancer or a heart problem can treat their illness, I do what I can, but without the necessary skills learned through long term therapy there isn't a whole lot of hope at this point.

BEVS

Morning J.

MrBEVS had to work yesterday but I made sure he had a birthday tea. That means cake to him

It is good that MrsJ is flexible on what any next move or thought might be. I do hope she is feeling better? Is she?

As you know I do agree that for someone with severe BPD /PTSD the solution is a long term therapy to help ingrain coping mechanisms to adjust behaviours.
Actually a very similar approach as is used for Asperger to help those people learn to develop the essential life skills to hopefully have reasonably independant lives.

As J knows, New Zealand has such a facility. It is the only one in the whole of New Zealand . There is no other so just like for J , people here are managing best they can with little resource to the tried and tested therapy that could help long term.

My husband and I knew someone with BPD. ( She has now remarried & moved away) She spent a good year in the facility and came out the other side better for it. Prior to that her behaviours were all over the place and even though she was aware she could not really control. Why do I write this? It is because I read the same for J. To be aware will make the sensitivities all the sharper.

Now, I know BE is not for this. We're not a mental health forum at all but I am sure that there are many out there that have to live with the Black Dog and the like & hopefully the right help & support is there when they need it.

Anyway - onward.

Are you still getting the DBT therapy sessions J. I have lost track a bit what with one thing and another.
Is your wife now well? Enough to look for a bit of work?

I'd like you to rethink the 'faulty brain' thing because if you have a faulty brain then I & husband must have also .

You are a perfectly fine man. You may process feelings and thoughts differently to the average joe soap but that does not make you faulty. It simply makes you unique and individual. There is a huge population out there all walking around a bit faulty around the edges.

You made a perfectly good decision to try to get your last job. It is a shame you chucked it but I do know how tough it can be to bite the tongue and let irritations wash over you. Yes. I have walked out of jobs that got up my nose too despite knowing I had bills to meet.

To me, your next move is to try and get back into work. Any work. Any work at all.
That is a one foot in front of another approach.
1 - Brings in a bit of the old $$.
2 - Keeps the mind a little occupied for a while.
3 - Focus and routine.

I actually think you do need a bit of outside people time even though it gives you head boil in the end. The reason I write this is that too much alone time , think time will make any problem grow to a place where it can all seem too huge. Too much alone overloads our minds . Our brains need respite and diversion. If you were a runner or sporty , I would suggest that as a mind detox. That works for husband . Your wonderful aquariums will help but you do need extra stimulation to ease the anxiety build up.

To me you are an articulate intelligent man J despite what you write. So is my husband who has spent most all of his life thinking he was dim and thick . That self perception does bring about frustration , a lack of confidence . A short fuse sometimes.

Despite that or in spite of that load you both carry - even though you should not - you are both perfectly good people that others love and care for.

caretaker

* Black Dog (depression) Good post and all true, especially the any work at all, one foot in front of the other mindset. Don't walk past help wanted signs you see on the street, stop and think about them and even go in and ask what it takes because it doesn't cost anything to ask. Find one in your neighbourhood and you can save on transportation. The only job I applied for and couldn't do was in a call centre doing a survey for new tobacco products. The manager told me to call a few friends first to test drive the survey, and it was so stupidly put together it was almost incomprehensible. My friend told me so, and I agreed, and the manager who was monitoring the call showed me the door. You can do any job and in the meantime still keep an eye out for the airport opportunities if you want to get back there.

scrubbedexpat091

My wife is looking for a job, she has had interviews and did get one job, but the location wasn't correct in the ad and there was no transit, so she couldn't take, anything we get needs to be within transit range and time, or walking distance of home.

One place said they will call her tomorrow to let her know either way, the is typical Canadian for, if we like you we will call, otherwise don't expect us to call.....lol....So time will tell.

I have applied for some that seemed suitable, haven't heard back from any yet, so not a whole lot going on that front, but I have no references, spotty work record, and don't perform at interviews well, I become a bumbling fool as I generally cannot answer their questions very well, if the interview is short, few questions I can usually get hired, so many use behavioral based interviewing now and those are tough to get through because largely I have to think of something on the fly, I don't generally remember things at jobs...lol let alone try and describe and event and how I solved it or describe how you handle stress, if I told the truth there would be no chance as the way I handle stress isn't considered correct according to society, so its an uphill battle as are those pre-employment psychological tests companies you to try and figure out your personality.

I am doing what I can with what I have available to me.

I go to DBT skills groups once per week, its a total of 6 months with a week break every couple of months, 3 modules left. Its an abbreviated DBT skills group so a lot is left out because of the time they need to fit it in, they estimate about 50% achieve some benefit and success from it, and the other 50% gain little to nothing, they know its not ideal, but the budget keeps getting cut so they keep having to shorten it to accommodate the budget.

Ideally DBT program should be a minimum of 1 year both group and one on one therapy weekly, the studies on effectiveness are based on that.

I am sure there are inpatient DBT programs at private facilities and inpatient would provide the best chance at success for people, same as how inpatient drug rehab tends to work better vs outpatient go to a meeting once a week.

Those of course are not covered by healthcare system. Inpatient psychiatric care in BC provided at hospitals that are covered are simply places to house people who are a risk to themselves or others, little treatment is actually done. I spent 6 weeks inpatient in 2012, I saw a doctor Mon to Fri for 10 mins maybe 15 if lucky, and a nurse would come by to talk during shift change to let you know they were your nurse for the next 12 hours.

I woke up at 8am, ate breakfast, saw doctor sometimes between 9 and 10, 11 was a crafts group, noon was lunch, 12 to 5 I sat in the main hall of the hospital people watching, dinner at 5p, 6-7 I would walk around the outside of the hospital, 7-10 TV time, 10pm bed. Repeat each day, except weekends when there was no craft time.

So not really treatment, the doctor just had nowhere to send me, and knew if released back to the street I would just overdose on medication again.

There are borderline treatment programs in the US, although they are only available to the wealthier folks or those with super duper good private health insurance.

The 6 week evaluation program alone costs $58,200 - $62,200 USD$ with 45k payment due on the first day..... After the 6 weeks average cost in $800 per day.

They do have a fee reduction program that can reduce the cost by 5 to 30% but of course at those rates even a 30% discount is a wee bit too much.

No idea if the above accept adults or men, just first one I found, I know some are restricted to youth and/or female.

Vancouver is home to a highly rated outpatient DBT program, they are fairly pricey as well,

$400 for intake fee.

Treatment fees run $950/month if you choose student level therapist or 1,200 a month for a Ph.d level therapist.

Cost and quality of services is likely why wealthier folks seem to recover more often, just boils down to access really, money gains people access to treatment.

scrubbedexpat091

I didn't last long in a call center either, about 4 weeks, anytime someone yelled at me and I couldn't cope, I would end the call, so my stats were not good, too many dropped calls, call center folks are not supposed to end the call, the call should only be ended by the caller, but it was the only option I could do to end the yelling and stress.

caretaker

A month is a long time in a call centre, I think. I had a couple of good short term ones but they weren't selling, just a survey for provincial health and another about parking for a community group. The people I interviewed were mostly good, (a couple of bad ones), and a few were really funny. Not a lot of money and not long term, but it was worth doing and kept me going for awhile. I don't think I'd be able to work in a sales call centre.

scrubbedexpat091

I wont even try sales, I tried cell phone sales once in 1999, and failed miserably, they had a quota of 5 plans per day, which was really hard unless good salesperson. Maybe easier now that larger % of population have cell phones, but I also tried to sell cheese and sausage baskets at Christmas with Hickory Farms and failed, so sales I know is a no go.


I was in a call center that handled red box DVD rental calls from the US, the only reason anyone was calling was to yell at you about something, nobody was calling because something wasn't wrong, and people get nasty of a dollar.

I believe they outsourced again to South America, Canada got too $$ I suppose. The job itself paid 9/hr this was a fair amount of years ago now. So much stress involved in such a place, sign into the phone 2 seconds late and you got an email, go to the bathroom and take longer then 5 mins, email again, every second was account for down to the second, micromanaging hell.....

End of the day you wanted to make sure the phone said 10:00:03pm so you had a bit of grace so they couldn't say you left early. 9:59:59 would be a write up for unauthorized early departure.

scrubbedexpat091

Borderline brain.


Stigma from the medical profession, just a clip, Marsha Linehan is the creator of DBT and really the worlds expert on both DBT and Borderline.,





How Marsha Linehand came to develop DBT

moneypenny20

You did better than me. I know without trying I could not do that job for a day let alone a month. I know why you do it but what you need to understand is that many of the issues you have are the same issues millions and millions of people have who don't have a diagnosed disease. You see problems where the rest of us see them. The only difference is that you are diagnosed with a legitimate illness that we don't have. You see everyone else through rose tinted lenses believing their lives are good when we all struggle in some form or other. Like I said I know why you do it, I just wanted you to know that what you see isn't real. Yes people have jobs, yes people own homes (together with the banks) but even with those things people have the same, as well as different, problems- ones that you may not have.

scilly

J ................

re your note on a deleted thread "Nothing I can say for people to understand."

Yes, we DO understand, but what moneypenny was trying to say, and what I am now trying to say, is that we also struggle with some of the same things.

I have never worked in a Call Centre, but I know that I wouldn't last even a day without losing it. I just don't have the temperament to do cold calling!

I know I am no good in retail sales or as a server because I cannot stand dealing with people, and end up shouting .............. yes, I have done both. I even worked as a maid in a hotel with making beds, cleaning rooms and washing up all part of my duties, and glutton for punishment that I was at the time, I did it at 3 different places!! I walked out on the 3rd one after a shouting match with the owner's live-in partner after less than 3 weeks.

We are not considered sick, but we do have some similar problems to you ................ the only way in which I think we really truly differ is that each of us has managed to find the job that was suitable for us, while you are still searching both for the job and the help that will let you achieve what you want. My "job" was best when I worked alone reporting to only one supervisor and with no-one else in "my" area. Not easy to find! Yes, I did get advanced education, but I wasn't the clubby, loads of friends person ............ I was much more of a loner. Still am!

Seeking medical help for any kind of illness can be extremely difficult, and unfortunately many brain disorders are not at all well understood, and therefore treatment is hard to find. We are really trying to understand and to make suggestions that might help you towards your aims.

Please don't get offended!

scrubbedexpat091

I did mostly good at the airline eons ago. Only place I lasted multiple years. I do think the flight benefits were what kept me there. They were my ticket to freedom to escape on my days off. I

Because the airline I was with paid poorly so it wasnt the money....lol


That was also before outsourcing became the norm.

At that same airport back then only 1 airline outsourced now only 2 have their own employees.

Airlines have largely done away with entry level airport jobs in favor of outsourcing.

moneypenny20

This. I was in no way downplaying the illness or the problems J is suffering from the illness. My point was to attempt to help him see that some of the problems he sees as being part of the illness are just part of being a human and living in the world today. Obviously the illness exacerbates these problems, I understand that. I had no intention of upsetting or antagonizing J. That was the last thing on my mind.

scrubbedexpat091

Lifes problems would be more bearable if not for a disorder that results in chaotic emotions and severe ups and downs.

The disorder is what hiders people with mental health issues.


Take someone with bipolar. With treatment their illness can be kept under control for a period of time somes years at a time and they can live fairly functioning lives. (Like any illness some people experience bipolar more extreme then others.)

But without treatment the same person will have a difficult to impossible time living a functioning life as they will not have the symptoms under control.

Borderline is no different. People with it have differing levels of severity and without treatment many many find it very very difficult to function normal enough in society.

Big difference is bipolar can be treated to reduce severity of symptoms. Where a borderline will need years possibly to acheive recovery.

Ill never functuon at a successful level without adequate treatment, if I could it would have happened by now.