Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
May 23rd 2013 | 1:56 am
#61
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40,070
From: Ontario
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Some of the Irish terrorists may well have been acting purely for criminal reasons, but I suspect many did harbour genuine political grievances. However, none of them rejected their root culture (Irish) indeed their actions were in defence of that culture. This situations differs in that the perpetrators have turned against their own nation.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...person-account
" I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help....
The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "
Secondly, I think your summation does a disservice to the Irish by suggesting that they're all of one culture (is, for example, painting kerb stones a long standing Catholic thing?) and to the mad religionists of Woolwich. The cleaver fella plainly belonged to multiple cultures before Islam entered the picture, he was a Nigerian born in the UK, which makes him about as English as I am Canadian.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:09 am
#63
The ride never ends
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,481
From: SW Ontario
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Some of the Irish terrorists may well have been acting purely for criminal reasons, but I suspect many did harbour genuine political grievances. However, none of them rejected their root culture (Irish) indeed their actions were in defence of that culture. This situations differs in that the perpetrators have turned against their own nation.
a) Everyone in the original IRA was by definition British as the UK extended over the entire island at that time. Most in the 60's onwards version were also British.
b) There were a number of Protestants involved some of whom were what you would definitely term "British".
There isn't really a different in "turning against your own nation" with those facts in mind.
I'd imagine if some local Muslim decided to run up and start hacking some RCMP or military bod to death close to Parliament Hill whilst shouting "God is Great" in arabic we'd not be gesticulating about whether it's "merely" a nutcase.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:18 am
#64
Realist
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 24,667
From: UK
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Firstly, I thought this a fantastic tale of a good deed not going unpunished:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...person-account
" I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help....
The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "
Secondly, I think your summation does a disservice to the Irish by suggesting that they're all of one culture (is, for example, painting kerb stones a long standing Catholic thing?) and to the mad religionists of Woolwich. The cleaver fella plainly belonged to multiple cultures before Islam entered the picture, he was a Nigerian born in the UK, which makes him about as English as I am Canadian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...person-account
" I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help....
The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "
Secondly, I think your summation does a disservice to the Irish by suggesting that they're all of one culture (is, for example, painting kerb stones a long standing Catholic thing?) and to the mad religionists of Woolwich. The cleaver fella plainly belonged to multiple cultures before Islam entered the picture, he was a Nigerian born in the UK, which makes him about as English as I am Canadian.
Second point is thought provoking. Only because I have a Nigerian London friend who was convinced he was more Nigerian than British, until he spent a couple of summers in Lagos and realised it might not be the case.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:18 am
#65
Lowering the tone
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,154
From: Here and there
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
They wanted to kill Western men, not necessarily soldiers.
*Yes, the man was wearing a Help For Heroes t-shirt, which personally I find crass and distasteful, and I can see why some may find it find offensive.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:20 am
#66
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Plus the movie "Clean Skin", plus some basic reading, plus the recognition that it is not about pies + a beer, it is that beliefs are strong/forceful in shaping behaviours. Anyone can pick up a weird belief/attitude that results in harm.
But you seem convinced this is incredulous, so go thee forward.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:20 am
#67
Seasoned Maritimer
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,309
From: Fredericton, New Brunswick CA
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Firstly, I thought this a fantastic tale of a good deed not going unpunished:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...person-account
" I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help....
The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "
Secondly, I think your summation does a disservice to the Irish by suggesting that they're all of one culture (is, for example, painting kerb stones a long standing Catholic thing?) and to the mad religionists of Woolwich. The cleaver fella plainly belonged to multiple cultures before Islam entered the picture, he was a Nigerian born in the UK, which makes him about as English as I am Canadian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...person-account
" I trained as a first aider when I was a Brownie leader, so I asked someone to watch my bag and then got off to see if I could help....
The bus then started to move away. They dropped us in the middle of Lewisham which really annoyed me because I had no idea how to get from there to Parliament Square. "
Secondly, I think your summation does a disservice to the Irish by suggesting that they're all of one culture (is, for example, painting kerb stones a long standing Catholic thing?) and to the mad religionists of Woolwich. The cleaver fella plainly belonged to multiple cultures before Islam entered the picture, he was a Nigerian born in the UK, which makes him about as English as I am Canadian.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:22 am
#69
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
This.
And the whole world has minute by minute details, nothing like a respectful talk to the family and loved ones first with discretion.
CNN is particularly abhorrent, it's like they get off on a "Oh Terror is real and oh so scary!" vibe on that station.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:24 am
#70
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Btw those 2 were clearly deluded, they wanted to start a "war in London" with machetes and a handgun, waiting for the police to come and then ran for them.
Looneys can use/latch on to any excuse, and it appears the retribution against Muslims has started in the UK.
Looneys can use/latch on to any excuse, and it appears the retribution against Muslims has started in the UK.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:25 am
#71
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40,070
From: Ontario
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Eh? The only reason for talking to the family and loved ones would be to poke them into saying something outrageous about the prepetrator or to cause them to break down theatrically for the camera. The respectful and discreet course of action is to leave them alone.
Last edited by dbd33; May 23rd 2013 at 2:27 am.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:26 am
#72
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,188
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
If I was a marginalised young man in London, with a keen sense of empathy to atrocities being carried out daily on people I regarded as "kin", I might feel angry enough to do something stupid. We've been through it all before with angry young Catholics feeling disenfranchised in Northern Ireland.
I don't recall seeing mass news coverage of the primary schools or wedding parties that we've dropped drones on? Do you know how many innocent Afghans or Iraqis were killed by US/UK troops this week alone? Neither do I, but I think we'd all agree it probably more than 1.
I don't offer this as justification for what the murderers did, but rather as an explanation of why so many angry, disenfranchised young radicals are on the streets right now. We created that situation, and the rise of fascist politics in the UK today will only make the tensions worse.
I don't recall seeing mass news coverage of the primary schools or wedding parties that we've dropped drones on? Do you know how many innocent Afghans or Iraqis were killed by US/UK troops this week alone? Neither do I, but I think we'd all agree it probably more than 1.
I don't offer this as justification for what the murderers did, but rather as an explanation of why so many angry, disenfranchised young radicals are on the streets right now. We created that situation, and the rise of fascist politics in the UK today will only make the tensions worse.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:31 am
#73
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,402
From: South of Calgary
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
He was an off-duty soldier, probably not immediately identifiable as military* - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The murderers were talking to women on camera, and warned people that 'women were safe but they would kill any man who approached.'
They wanted to kill Western men, not necessarily soldiers.
*Yes, the man was wearing a Help For Heroes t-shirt, which personally I find crass and distasteful, and I can see why some may find it find offensive.
They wanted to kill Western men, not necessarily soldiers.
*Yes, the man was wearing a Help For Heroes t-shirt, which personally I find crass and distasteful, and I can see why some may find it find offensive.
May 23rd 2013 | 2:33 am
#74
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 992
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
I am not talking about the media talking to them.
