Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
#211
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Ideally, I'd try to avoid them wanting to do so by not invading their country in the first place. Think of it not so much as 'cutting off the head' of the enemy, more of convincing the enemy's head that you're not a threat to them in the first place... even if you are. Diplomacy is usually preferable to grenades.
If that proved to be somehow impossible, I'd get out of their country as soon as the primary target was achieved, and not drag out onto innumerable secondary operations, just because my generals suggest its necessary.
If we exclude Hitler, who really just wanted to take our territory, and the IRA, who really just wanted to get theirs back, nobody else has ever deliberately targeted British citizens for murder... until the era of The War On Terror.
WHY do you think they want to kill us?
If that proved to be somehow impossible, I'd get out of their country as soon as the primary target was achieved, and not drag out onto innumerable secondary operations, just because my generals suggest its necessary.
If we exclude Hitler, who really just wanted to take our territory, and the IRA, who really just wanted to get theirs back, nobody else has ever deliberately targeted British citizens for murder... until the era of The War On Terror.
WHY do you think they want to kill us?
I don't recall an unjustified occupation at that time.
I believe they wish to kill us for reasons vastly different to those put forward by those that attempt to justify their actions.
Most convicts believe their crimes are justified. Most listening to them would not agree with them.
Some of those we are talking about will wish to kill all non Muslims, or those that have no religion at all. What do you suggest is done about those?
#212
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
I believe they wish to kill us for reasons vastly different to those put forward by those that attempt to justify their actions.
Most convicts believe their crimes are justified. Most listening to them would not agree with them.
Some of those we are talking about will wish to kill all non Muslims, or those that have no religion at all. What do you suggest is done about those?
Most convicts believe their crimes are justified. Most listening to them would not agree with them.
Some of those we are talking about will wish to kill all non Muslims, or those that have no religion at all. What do you suggest is done about those?
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
The vast majority of this country are peacable agnostics/athiests. Let's have our voice heard the loudest - not the religious nutters.
#213
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Ideally, I'd try to avoid them wanting to do so by not invading their country in the first place. Think of it not so much as 'cutting off the head' of the enemy, more of convincing the enemy's head that you're not a threat to them in the first place... even if you are. Diplomacy is usually preferable to grenades.
If that proved to be somehow impossible, I'd get out of their country as soon as the primary target was achieved, and not drag out onto innumerable secondary operations, just because my generals suggest its necessary.
If we exclude Hitler, who really just wanted to take our territory, and the IRA, who really just wanted to get theirs back, nobody else has ever deliberately targeted British citizens for murder... until the era of The War On Terror.
WHY do you think they want to kill us?
If that proved to be somehow impossible, I'd get out of their country as soon as the primary target was achieved, and not drag out onto innumerable secondary operations, just because my generals suggest its necessary.
If we exclude Hitler, who really just wanted to take our territory, and the IRA, who really just wanted to get theirs back, nobody else has ever deliberately targeted British citizens for murder... until the era of The War On Terror.
WHY do you think they want to kill us?
#214
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Osama bin Laden was unhinged, but even so, his real hatred was for the Saudi rulers who had invited US troops into Saudi Arabia. So, ultimately, it was a 'boisterous awayday' that was at the root of the thinking that ended up with 9/11. He hated the infidels, and he hated those who let the infidels to "his land." Therefore, he went into theirs.
It almost doesn't matter why they want to kill us now... the fact is, they do. They didn't before, but thanks to our own meddling, now they do. Cheers, Bush.
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
The vast majority of this country are peacable agnostics/athiests. Let's have our voice heard the loudest - not the religious nutters.
It almost doesn't matter why they want to kill us now... the fact is, they do. They didn't before, but thanks to our own meddling, now they do. Cheers, Bush.
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
The vast majority of this country are peacable agnostics/athiests. Let's have our voice heard the loudest - not the religious nutters.
As you have indicated, nutjobs can convince their followers to commit suicide. I don't dispute that there are those that believe the west reacted to 9/11 inappropriately, some of them are members of this forum. I don't believe most if them have killed people in protest.
#215
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Osama bin Laden was unhinged, but even so, his real hatred was for the Saudi rulers who had invited US troops into Saudi Arabia. So, ultimately, it was a 'boisterous awayday' that was at the root of the thinking that ended up with 9/11. He hated the infidels, and he hated those who let the infidels to "his land." Therefore, he went into theirs.
It almost doesn't matter why they want to kill us now... the fact is, they do. They didn't before, but thanks to our own meddling, now they do. Cheers, Bush.
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
The vast majority of this country are peacable agnostics/athiests. Let's have our voice heard the loudest - not the religious nutters.
It almost doesn't matter why they want to kill us now... the fact is, they do. They didn't before, but thanks to our own meddling, now they do. Cheers, Bush.
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
The vast majority of this country are peacable agnostics/athiests. Let's have our voice heard the loudest - not the religious nutters.
#216
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
What would I do? Start by disestablishing the C of E, and dismantling all religious influence in politics. Ultimately become an offical secular state. Turn MI5 onto religious leaders and harrass them as much as the law would allow to prevent them from spreading their lies, Christian, Jew, Muslim alike.
.
#217
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
True, curbng religion does sit uneasily with my essentially libertarian views. But I'm prepared to put that unease to one side to clamp down on religion on the grounds that religious leaders themselves are not exactly friends of free speech or free will.
#218
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
As you have indicated, nutjobs can convince their followers to commit suicide. I don't dispute that there are those that believe the west reacted to 9/11 inappropriately, some of them are members of this forum. I don't believe most if them have killed people in protest.
#219
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
In the spirit of keeping it simple and albeit fairly recent in the grand scheme of things....then you should go back and read up on other stalwart of peace who's respect for human rights and tolerance is renowned. Namely the Ayatollah Khomeini who called for "Holy War" back in 1979...to be waged against all of us "infidels", the Great Satan" and fellow even certain Muslim factions and countries that he thought needed to be wiped off the face of the earth - be they young, old or infirm it mattered not.
So I suggest you look to him not Bush for this recent festering shit sandwich "Jihad".
May I recommend a book by John Laffin also, HOLY WAR-Islam Fights...written in 1988. Can be had quite cheaply on Amazon....
The "why" should be explained simply enough for you.
#220
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
I was reading recently ("American War Machine", if I remember correctly), that the rise in Islamic fundamentalism started in the 60's and into the 70's funded and encouraged by the CIA in the Middle East and Pakistan as a bulwark/ counter strategy to American concerns about the spread of communism. At the time, though retrospectively rather naively, Islam was not considered to be a threat to US/ Israeli/ western interests, though communism was, and CIA were handing out sacks of cash to any Islamist prepared to stand up to any incipient communist movement. The strategy began to unravel with the revolution in Iran in the late 70's, but that didn't stop the CIA delivering $100's of millions in aid to the mujihadeen in Afghanistan in the 80's and the US government delivering $billions to Pakistan that continues to this day despite Pakistan harbouring Bin Liner himself for several years, and the very cosy relationship between the Pakistani government/ army/ military intelligence and numerous Islamic paramilitary organizations.
#221
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
I was reading recently ("American War Machine", if I remember correctly), that the rise in Islamic fundamentalism started in the 60's and into the 70's funded and encouraged by the CIA in the Middle East and Pakistan as a bulwark/ counter strategy to American concerns about the spread of communism. At the time, though retrospectively rather naively, Islam was not considered to be a threat to US/ Israeli/ western interests, though communism was, and CIA were handing out sacks of cash to any Islamist prepared to stand up to any incipient communist movement. The strategy began to unravel with the revolution in Iran in the late 70's, but that didn't stop the CIA delivering $100's of millions in aid to the mujihadeen in Afghanistan in the 80's and the US government delivering $billions to Pakistan that continues to this day despite Pakistan harbouring Bin Liner himself for several years, and the very cosy relationship between the Pakistani government/ army/ military intelligence and numerous Islamic paramilitary organizations.
#222
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
Perhaps the nations and peoples of Eastern Europe would disagree with your synopsis?
#224
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
But you are WRONG...it does matter.....and as for blaming Bush, you're having a laugh right....or you really are seriously deluded....You will need to go back a TAD...early 70s at least....and for a key culprit....
In the spirit of keeping it simple and albeit fairly recent in the grand scheme of things....then you should go back and read up on other stalwart of peace who's respect for human rights and tolerance is renowned. Namely the Ayatollah Khomeini who called for "Holy War" back in 1979...to be waged against all of us "infidels", the Great Satan" and fellow even certain Muslim factions and countries that he thought needed to be wiped off the face of the earth - be they young, old or infirm it mattered not.
So I suggest you look to him not Bush for this recent festering shit sandwich "Jihad".
May I recommend a book by John Laffin also, HOLY WAR-Islam Fights...written in 1988. Can be had quite cheaply on Amazon....
The "why" should be explained simply enough for you.
In the spirit of keeping it simple and albeit fairly recent in the grand scheme of things....then you should go back and read up on other stalwart of peace who's respect for human rights and tolerance is renowned. Namely the Ayatollah Khomeini who called for "Holy War" back in 1979...to be waged against all of us "infidels", the Great Satan" and fellow even certain Muslim factions and countries that he thought needed to be wiped off the face of the earth - be they young, old or infirm it mattered not.
So I suggest you look to him not Bush for this recent festering shit sandwich "Jihad".
May I recommend a book by John Laffin also, HOLY WAR-Islam Fights...written in 1988. Can be had quite cheaply on Amazon....
The "why" should be explained simply enough for you.
The KEY difference between then and now is that we now have hundreds of thousands of troops in THEIR lands, killing their borthers and mothers on a daily basis. Can't you see that their reason to hate us has gone beyond the usual extremism? The man on the street now has a very valid reason to hate us and to wish us harm.
Add that to the 90s/00s boom in immigration, and we now have a generation of home-bred people who have been raised on the stories of the imperialist actions of the West. Young men have always been prime fodder for rebellious causes, and there's certainly no lack of people eager to fill their heads with reasons to hate us now. We are just reaping what we have sown.
#225
Re: Soldier beheaded broad daylight _Woolwich!
AS makes a good point about the genesis of Anti-American sentiment in Iran but it was not only in the Middle East but SE Asia and Latin America and the Carribean. At some point a lot of the people suffering under US backed tin-pot dictators like Batista and Marcos got up and began saying Yanqi Go Home, and that was proof enough the domino theory was true and good old gun-boat diplomacy was needed. Godless communists were fair game and putting ruthless assholes in power in any under developed resource-rich country and keeping them there with US military assistance kept the world safe from the end of WW2 into the '90s. And in all the Moslem countries the extremists were kept chained to dank walls so the dictators wouldn't have to deal with them. Until now, and they will be represented in the governments of the Arab Spring nations sooner or later.