scrubbedexpat142

Early years in Surrey & Sussex (in between staying with Father in London). Teen aged in Bristol then back to Surrey. Some years in Northwest, latterly in southwest.

Jingsamichty

The primary aim of the gypos is to roam and wander wherever they want to, and this they can do freely, albeit not often into the warmest of welcomes. Native Americans had their lands taken away and they were penned into reservations like sheep, and then systemically classified into second-class citizens.

raindropsandroses

What about what was done to the Romany Gypsies during the Holocaust?

Jingsamichty

It was dreadful of course, but that was specific to one particular period of insanity. What happened to the native Americans went on for over 100 years, supported by successive governments in Canada and the UK, and what is even worse is that the general modern day population of Canada still doesn't really give a monkeys. Out of sight, out of mind and all that...

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with the good things in the UK, like proper pub beer gardens. Patios, my arse!

dbd33

Is the context today or historical wrongs?

raindropsandroses

That's not true, the Romany Gypsies have been persecuted by various countries and regimes for centuries, they are still now and most of the population of the UK, and Europe don't give a monkeys, labelling them offensive slurs "gypos" "pikeys" "dids" and others I don't care to remember. They are treated as underclass, lazy scroungers and it seems socially acceptable in the UK and Europe to hold those attitudes towards the Romany people and to voice them.

Sorry for derailing Bristol, I have Romany friends and I've seen first hand the way they are still treated in the UK and Europe, and its disgusting. The treatment of the First Nation people isn't any less disgusting, but let's not kid ourselves that the UK and Europe are paragons of tolerance and virtue.

Jingsamichty

I suggested the treatment the native population after Bristol asked for an example of where the UK was 'the lesser of two evils' compared to Canada. So given that they are still subject to discriminatory legislation today, it's probably in the context of both today and historically.

Oakvillian

History. History in the built environment, both in the grand stuff (cathedrals, castles, stately homes, formal gardens) and in the vernacular (thatched cottages, village churches, Victorian city pubs...)

Culture. High culture especially - I mean, Canada (specifically Toronto) is not completely hopeless, the TSO is a proper orchestra, the COC is a world class opera company, the National Ballet is right up there, TIFF is a great festival. But there's a breadth and depth of cultural institutions in the UK (specifically London, but extending right across the country) that knock Canada into a cocked hat.

Village cricket. A gaggle of deck chairs on the boundary by the pavilion, staffed by the long-suffering families of the players and the occasional recently-dismissed batsman having a quiet snooze. Beer and sandwiches for tea. Playing on into the gathering gloom on a Sunday evening, playing two spinners because even the captain grudgingly acknowledges that the light will be called if the quicks go back on. Somebody up-thread mentioned test matches. Sure, most people watch them on the telly, but there's still something special about spending a couple of days indulging in the culinary delights of a picnic basket from the lofty heights of the upper tier of the Compton Stand at Lord's.

Pubs, of course. Not plastic-paddy Irish theme bars, or anywhere with a bazillion giant screens playing endless repeats of hockey. A pub, with decent beer, honest food, a dartboard, music (if there has to be music) quiet enough that you can hear your mates from across the table. Maybe a bar billiards table.

Of course, what Britain does really well is display an innate sense of smug superiority. Even when politicians play politics (which is really all that's going on in Bristol's opening post) they seem to do it better than almost anyone except the current US administration. Everything connected with Brexit can be boiled down to a schoolyard boast. "We don't need you. We can do this without you. And anyway, my dad's bigger'n your dad." That, I don't miss so much... Canada's reputation is something of the opposite, hence the jokes about constant apologies.

dbd33

What I think the native population of Canada and the Romany population of Europe have in common is a desire to live in a manner not quite consistent with that of the host society; one reflecting in part the historical patterns of behaviour of their ancestors. Where they differ is that the native populations are supported in their desires, albeit to a limited degree, by the host society while the Romanies are openly persecuted, at least they are in some European countries.

It's invidious to choose which minority is the more persecuted minority but I'm unconvinced that the native populations are markedly worse off.

scrubbedexpat142

Full of rampaging kids, haughty yummy Mummies & sanctimonious Fathers - you're kidding!

Novocastrian

That reminds me a great deal of my speech to a dinner party hosted by the Uni Prez and attended by the movers and shakers at you-know-which Uni to "welcome" my appointment in 1993. As I said all this there were sagely pensive academic nods all around, but my next line was, "but of course we don't have a Skydome".

That seemed to make them happy. Silly people, but a bit of flattery goes a long way.

scrubbedexpat142

Ah, Oakvillian, the UK of old, the one I remember, almost (not quite) extinct - how long before these bourgeois pursuits are finally extinguished?

dbd33

Bar billiards is, I accept, something of a bourgeois pursuit; that Zara Phillips is the dog's bollocks at it, but village cricket? Surely that's as egalitarian as sporting pursuits can ever be.

scrubbedexpat142

Should be, but I think if you canvass the supporters of New Labour I think you might get a different answer.

PS: I should have put bourgeois in inverted commas!

Partially discharged

I think Oakvillian can relate to the subject matter here:


from one of my favourite 'concept' albums......much better than dbd's fave (Rush - 2112 or Hemispheres)