Religion
Feb 21st 2009 | 11:47 am
#107
Part Time Poster
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,219
From: Worcestershire
Re: Religion
and he shows some pretty poor understanding of cosmology
(not uncommon is these types of discussion as most tend or chose to focus around biology)
Last edited by MikeUK; Feb 21st 2009 at 11:50 am.
Feb 21st 2009 | 11:50 am
#109
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,092
From: Calgary
Re: Religion
OK - let's all meet with a bunch of wine and have a discussion. My typing fingers are getting numb!
Feb 21st 2009 | 11:52 am
#110
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,259
From: Europe (to be specified).
Re: Religion
OK, I didn't need a whole minute.
The gist seems to be that if the universe we inhabit had been just a little bit different, it wouldn't work.
But why is that relevant? Universes (or rather proto-universes) with other dimensionalities and other "fundamental constants" presumably flicker in and out of existence, but, of course if they don't have the dimensionality of ours (including the half dimension of time) they can't exist in the way ours does.
The gist seems to be that if the universe we inhabit had been just a little bit different, it wouldn't work.
But why is that relevant? Universes (or rather proto-universes) with other dimensionalities and other "fundamental constants" presumably flicker in and out of existence, but, of course if they don't have the dimensionality of ours (including the half dimension of time) they can't exist in the way ours does.
Feb 21st 2009 | 11:54 am
#111
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,824
From: the GTA
Re: Religion
From triumphguy: Just as I believe that my religion points to my creator I believe that other religions and attempts to give meaning also point to the creator.
Do you believe all life on earth was created by the Creator? If so, when did this take place? Fundmentalists believe it was some 6,000 years ago vs 4.5 billion estimates by scientists. A few years ago a town in Pennsylvania's school board decide they wanted creationism taught in its schools, in contravention of US law. Their claim was called Intelligent Design and the legal action went all the way to the State's Supreme Court where it was struck down. My limited understanding of their theory is that some creatures followed the path outlined by Darwinism but that more complex creatures, such as humans, had to have the hand of God in their making.
Do you believe all life on earth was created by the Creator? If so, when did this take place? Fundmentalists believe it was some 6,000 years ago vs 4.5 billion estimates by scientists. A few years ago a town in Pennsylvania's school board decide they wanted creationism taught in its schools, in contravention of US law. Their claim was called Intelligent Design and the legal action went all the way to the State's Supreme Court where it was struck down. My limited understanding of their theory is that some creatures followed the path outlined by Darwinism but that more complex creatures, such as humans, had to have the hand of God in their making.
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:11 pm
#113
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,259
From: Europe (to be specified).
Re: Religion
I quote from the venerable work created by the products of our Lord's foresight, namely Wikipedia;
"Peter Atkins left school at fifteen 'for private reasons' and took a job with Monsanto as a lab assistant. He studied for A-levels by himself but failed to take a place at Southampton University before gaining a place, following an interview, at University of Leicester at a week's notice."
Do you really think that characterizing one of the leading atheist intellects of our time as "the chemist who worked for Monsanto" is supporting your image as an intelligent debater?
It's not.
BTW I'd still be interested in learning your trick for becoming less hypocritical.
"Peter Atkins left school at fifteen 'for private reasons' and took a job with Monsanto as a lab assistant. He studied for A-levels by himself but failed to take a place at Southampton University before gaining a place, following an interview, at University of Leicester at a week's notice."
Do you really think that characterizing one of the leading atheist intellects of our time as "the chemist who worked for Monsanto" is supporting your image as an intelligent debater?
It's not.
BTW I'd still be interested in learning your trick for becoming less hypocritical.
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:19 pm
#114
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,313
Re: Religion
I may be a deluded fool...
I think of religion like a language. Other people's languages work well for them, but I can't understand them. My religion is the language I use to express my spiritual side in a community I understand and whoi speak the same language as me.
They are just as human as any atheist or hiindu however, but they are a strong vital community with a presence that has contributed to the great river of history. Just as langauge can be used to abuse so can religion. But I would rather learn a language than not, because with langaue I also have access to the greatest that the human mind can create: and in the same way I would rather teach my children the language of Catholicism than not.
See, if I believe that Christ is the Word made flesh then all words spoken in truth point to The Word.
I think of religion like a language. Other people's languages work well for them, but I can't understand them. My religion is the language I use to express my spiritual side in a community I understand and whoi speak the same language as me.
They are just as human as any atheist or hiindu however, but they are a strong vital community with a presence that has contributed to the great river of history. Just as langauge can be used to abuse so can religion. But I would rather learn a language than not, because with langaue I also have access to the greatest that the human mind can create: and in the same way I would rather teach my children the language of Catholicism than not.
See, if I believe that Christ is the Word made flesh then all words spoken in truth point to The Word.
I was trying to understand whether, as a Christian whose God (I thought) tells you not to worship anyone else (false idols?), you thought the other 5 billion or so who do believe in other gods (etc) are entirely wrong and misguided, and whether you knew if they thought the same of you.
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:19 pm
#115
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,092
From: Calgary
Re: Religion
I quote from the venerable work created by the products of our Lord's foresight, namely Wikipedia;
"Peter Atkins left school at fifteen 'for private reasons' and took a job with Monsanto as a lab assistant. He studied for A-levels by himself but failed to take a place at Southampton University before gaining a place, following an interview, at University of Leicester at a week's notice."
Do you really think that characterizing one of the leading atheist intellects of our time as "the chemist who worked for Monsanto" is supporting your image as an intelligent debater?
It's not.
.
"Peter Atkins left school at fifteen 'for private reasons' and took a job with Monsanto as a lab assistant. He studied for A-levels by himself but failed to take a place at Southampton University before gaining a place, following an interview, at University of Leicester at a week's notice."
Do you really think that characterizing one of the leading atheist intellects of our time as "the chemist who worked for Monsanto" is supporting your image as an intelligent debater?
It's not.
.
BTW I'd still be interested in learning your trick for becoming less hypocritical
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:21 pm
#117
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,092
From: Calgary
Re: Religion
Well, thanks for taking the trouble to reply, but to be honest, if you hadn't included my post in the quote, I wouldn't have known you were replying to it. I'm still not sure if you didn't mix up the quotes from someone else's post.
I was trying to understand whether, as a Christian whose God (I thought) tells you not to worship anyone else (false idols?), you thought the other 5 billion or so who do believe in other gods (etc) are entirely wrong and misguided, and whether you knew if they thought the same of you.
I was trying to understand whether, as a Christian whose God (I thought) tells you not to worship anyone else (false idols?), you thought the other 5 billion or so who do believe in other gods (etc) are entirely wrong and misguided, and whether you knew if they thought the same of you.
But I'll answer -err, yeah 5 billion other people think I'm an idiot innit!
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:24 pm
#118
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,259
From: Europe (to be specified).
Feb 21st 2009 | 12:38 pm
#120
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,313
Re: Religion
How delightful. That's a very small reply.
Its one of the issues I have trouble understanding about religion - it appears that I could ask 1 billion people about it who are 100% sure that their god (etc) is the way and all other gods aren't, and then I could ask a different billion people and they would tell me the first billion are wrong and they are 100% sure it's their god that is the head honcho.
It seems whoever is right about their religion (assuming someone is right), tends to mean that another 5 billion are wrong.
Its one of the issues I have trouble understanding about religion - it appears that I could ask 1 billion people about it who are 100% sure that their god (etc) is the way and all other gods aren't, and then I could ask a different billion people and they would tell me the first billion are wrong and they are 100% sure it's their god that is the head honcho.
It seems whoever is right about their religion (assuming someone is right), tends to mean that another 5 billion are wrong.
