PM Boris

Old Dec 12th 2019, 10:17 pm
  #1081  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Loads of hedge fund managers made a lot of money tonight ...
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Old Dec 12th 2019, 10:22 pm
  #1082  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Labour simply didn't understand what this election was all about.
I disagree. Labour lost for 3 reasons.

They tried to appeal to both Leave and Remain members of the party.
Brexit fatigue.
They couldn't beat the Tory-supporting media machine such as the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph and others, and the repeated anti-Corbyn narratives. The the knee-jerk reaction would have been to get rid of Corbyn, but then the media would have still continued to push their agenda on anti-semitism in the Labour Party, aided by Blairites who feel that being Tory-lite is the only path to number 10.
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Old Dec 12th 2019, 10:24 pm
  #1083  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
It's looking like Labour has secured the lowest number of seats in decades.
It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas, too. But it's not here yet.
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Old Dec 12th 2019, 10:38 pm
  #1084  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
Loads of hedge fund managers made a lot of money tonight ...
Yes.
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Old Dec 12th 2019, 10:49 pm
  #1085  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I disagree. Labour lost for 3 reasons.
Not sure about that.
IF early showings prove correct...
I've argued many times that this election was all about Brexit. The Labour decision to abandon this topic and boldly stand in no-mans land was a gross mistake and handed the pro brexit vote to the tories.
The brexit party stole votes, not from labour but, from the tories andwill have reduced the tory majority.
I don't think that arguing disinformation or media brainwashing is valid to the extent that it would have altered the result. I'd argue that discussions in the pub trump a front page any time.
But...
The next election will be influenced by brexit hangover and traditional loyalties should return, it all depends what happens in the meantime.

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Old Dec 12th 2019, 11:23 pm
  #1086  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Not sure about that.
IF early showings prove correct...
I've argued many times that this election was all about Brexit. The Labour decision to abandon this topic and boldly stand in no-mans land was a gross mistake and handed the pro brexit vote to the tories.
The brexit party stole votes, not from labour but, from the tories andwill have reduced the tory majority.
I don't think that arguing disinformation or media brainwashing is valid to the extent that it would have altered the result. I'd argue that discussions in the pub trump a front page any time.
But...
The next election will be influenced by brexit hangover and traditional loyalties should return, it all depends what happens in the meantime.
The Brexit party took votes away from Labour in Sunderland Central though ......
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Old Dec 12th 2019, 11:35 pm
  #1087  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
The Brexit party took votes away from Labour in Sunderland Central though ......
I'd argue that those votes would have gone to the tories as the only other pro brexit party available.

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Old Dec 13th 2019, 12:48 am
  #1088  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
The Brexit party took votes away from Labour in Sunderland Central though ......
Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
I'd argue that those votes would have gone to the tories as the only other pro brexit party available.
Labour lost 13.4% of the votes compared to the previous election.
Brexit Party increased their share by 11.6%, and the Tories increased theirs by 2%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/...cies/E14000982

I think that shows you're wrong, Dave.
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 12:57 am
  #1089  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Labour lost 13.4% of the votes compared to the previous election.
Brexit Party increased their share by 11.6%, and the Tories increased theirs by 2%.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/...cies/E14000982
I think that shows you're wrong, Dave.
It's a question of interpretation.
True, both brexit and conservatives took votes from labour based on the last election results but had the brexit party not stood then it's likely that the hard line brexit ex-labour voters who voted brexit would very likely have chosen to vote tory instead. In the case of Sunderland it may have converted the labour hold to a conservative gain.. but we'll never know.

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Old Dec 13th 2019, 1:26 am
  #1090  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
It's a question of interpretation.
True, both brexit and conservatives took votes from labour based on the last election results but had the brexit party not stood then it's likely that the hard line brexit ex-labour voters who voted brexit would very likely have chosen to vote tory instead. In the case of Sunderland it may have converted the labour hold to a conservative gain.. but we'll never know.
What happened is a fact, why it happened is open to interpretation. But Brexit Party took way more votes from Labour than the Tories did.
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 2:26 am
  #1091  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Jeremy is out.
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 12:20 pm
  #1092  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I disagree. Labour lost for 3 reasons.

They tried to appeal to both Leave and Remain members of the party.
Brexit fatigue.
They couldn't beat the Tory-supporting media machine such as the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph and others, and the repeated anti-Corbyn narratives. The the knee-jerk reaction would have been to get rid of Corbyn, but then the media would have still continued to push their agenda on anti-semitism in the Labour Party, aided by Blairites who feel that being Tory-lite is the only path to number 10.
Was there a signwritten bus as well DLD?

Come on, I'm waiting for the GE equivalent of the 37% meme - hurry up and do the calcs.
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 1:29 pm
  #1093  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Was there a signwritten bus as well DLD?

Come on, I'm waiting for the GE equivalent of the 37% meme - hurry up and do the calcs.
Don't be a <snip>

Though now you bring it up, turnout for this election (67%) was lower than that for your precious opinion poll

The only good thing about this election was watching the libs only get 11 seats. Maybe now they can stop pretending they aren't Tories and just go join them so we don't have to listen to their shit anymore. And Jezza might have lost but to still manage to win 200 seats even with being portrayed as Stalin reborn by the chuds in the British press has to be taken as a positive by the British left. If Labour can keep to its roots and not lose the democratic socialists to neoliberal 'centrist' accelerationists then there is hope for 2024.

For me, it was a disappointing result, if an unsurprising one, but still with a glimmer of encouragement for the years to come.

Last edited by christmasoompa; Dec 13th 2019 at 2:10 pm. Reason: Erm…this isn't TIO!
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 1:34 pm
  #1094  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Don't be a wanker.

Though now you bring it up, turnout for this election (67%) was lower than that for your precious opinion poll

The only good thing about this election was watching the libs only get 11 seats. Maybe now they can stop pretending they aren't Tories and just go join them so we don't have to listen to their shit anymore. And Jezza might have lost but to still manage to win 200 seats even with being portrayed as Stalin reborn by the chuds in the British press has to be taken as a positive by the British left. If Labour can keep to its roots and not lose the democratic socialists to neoliberal 'centrist' accelerationists then there is hope for 2024.

For me, it was a disappointing result, if an unsurprising one, but still with a glimmer of encouragement for the years to come.
It just lost its roots in this election - it retained the virtue-signalling middle-class, feminist, remainiac, metro-sexuals in the few cities, but the heartlands of the working class have gone to the Tories. Whether the Tories can keep them is a different matter, but I suspect Lansman and Momentum can put up another dud for the next election.
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Old Dec 13th 2019, 1:42 pm
  #1095  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
It just lost its roots in this election - it retained the virtue-signalling middle-class, feminist, remainiac, metro-sexuals in the few cities, but the heartlands of the working class have gone to the Tories. Whether the Tories can keep them is a different matter, but I suspect Lansman and Momentum can put up another dud for the next election.
Those are lib traits, and also wank words so yay double whammy. Labor's roots are democratic socialism, which is what Corbyn at least tries to represent, and I hate the idpol libs have tried to hijack progressivism but we can't let that distract us from making sure the British left continues to have somewhere to go.

Intersectionality is great and all that, but the message is more important than the person delivering it. Sometimes an old, white man is what we need. Jezza and my boy Bernie being prime examples. Just watch the libs in America hand the election to Trump by going for someone like Mayo Pete because the fact that he's under 45 and gay outweighs the fact that he is a closet Republican who'll bomb civilians for oil with reckless abandon.

I want to die. I'm almost not joking.
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