SchnookoLoly

I definitely have a problem with this... it undermines the process that others go through to get into Canada legally. Yes there is a certain advantage to being born to a middle-class English family, as Oakvillian said, but it's not exactly fair to make immigration easier for other countries as a result.

dbd33

Or the German or Swiss one. An obvious problem is that this creates an underclass of stateless workers. That's fine if you believe that, by blood, people descended from people already in the country are superior to foreigners but it doesn't work in a country where everyone is an immigrant.

If implemented in Canada it would have the unfortunate effect of making us all slaves to the First Nations; the white people would have to make and smuggle cigarettes while living in near destitution.

Oakvillian

I am not as intimitely familiar with "No one is illegal" as Magnum obviously is, but I suspect this is a bit of an oversimplification of their position - or if it's not, they're living in cloud cuckoo land. There seems to be a bit of a grey area between social assistance for those on the very fringes of society, and the "immigrants coming over here, taking all our benefits, getting free houses" nonsense that the Daily Mail is fond of reporting in the UK.

Of course, people shouldn't enter the country illegally, and if they're caught either in the process of getting in, or in a legitimate operation complying with all society's rules once they're here, then they should suffer the consequences. I don't think this is a case of making immigration "easier for other countries," it's a case of addressing the reality that there are large numbers of people here, especially in Toronto, who need some help; and we, as a relatively affluent society, should not begrudge them the help they need. Equally, there needs to be due process - justice done and seen to be done - in the way in which illegals are caught and prosecuted.

I also don't think illegal immigrants should live wholly without fear of being deported - although perhaps there should be an acknowledged path to some recognised status for those who currently have none. This need not be an easy or free process, but it helps neither the underclass nor society as a whole to offer no hope of legitimising their position. I suspect that in the overwhelming majority of cases these are not dbd's friends the Irish brickies or plasterers from Kilburn, but "economic migrants" from poorer countries for whom the risks of deportation are more than offset by the rewards of being able to earn Canadian dollars under the table. Leaving aside, of course, the refugees and asylum claimants from war-torn and famine-ravaged nations.

magnumpi

Canada should join the EU along with Australia. But obviously keep the Dollar !!

Yorkiechef

At some point someone drew the line in the sand and said we are Swiss or Qatari, much like Scotland May do next month, born here or live here as at a certain date, you get a Scottish passport. So First Nations alone does not cut it, so there you sit in Canada, if a citizen you would count, and you have the choice, do I think that this is a good model for how Canada deals with its lack of skilled labour and can the country and it's elected members of parliament sleep well knowing it has chosen to do this. Or do you disagree and eventually open all borders to everyone irrespective of skills, swamping the infrastructure. Do you see any similarities currently with what is being developed with foreign workers on temp visas. Can you see how this is developing? I do hope you will share your views.

I indicated in an earlier post that the world is changing, millions of refugees are now entering Europe, the make up and culture of the countries is changing, who is to say that in 50 years time that we will not have a Syria or Bosnia scenario again, but in France or Britain. Perhaps the (Qatari) pLAN has some legs? I really don't know.

dbd33

August 1st, 1291. I'm going to guess that the people in Canada at that date were all members of what are currently called "First Nations".

What date would you choose for the introduction of this caste system in Canada? Perhaps one just before you arrive so you, and your descendants, will always be landless labourers?

Yorkiechef

I would not choose it, the citizens of canada would. Or perhaps their elected representatives. Much like Scotland. So why does 1291 have any bearing? Swiss independence I am guessing

What has that got todo with Canadian First Nations ?

I have things to do, perhaps I'll come back to this later. Or I'll start a debate about Tom hortons crap coffee or cheese, seems that is the order of the day.

bc_guy

Why can't all the world's nations just help make all parts of the world nice places to live, so that there would be no more controversy over immigration. Prior to the 1960s, Europe lost millions of its inhabitants to emigration. However, a little bit of post-war development aid changed all that. If this method worked on solving the European immigrant "problem", then it can work on solving the illegal immigrant problem once and for all. All the money spent on protecting borders and deporting people during the past 40 years could have been spent on improving conditions in the developing world so that those people wouldn't feel compelled to leave their own countries in huge numbers today.

Mass immigration to one part of the globe would only overcrowd that particular region. Immigration isn't the long-term answer to these problems. Once the entire world attains a more-or-less equally high standard of living, mass emigration/immigration would cease. Infant mortality rates will plummet along with birth rates, total fertility rates and population growth rates as life improves for people all around the world. It would certainly help ease the strain on the earth's natural resources.

Almost Canadian

What type of fuel and resources will be used for these increases? Air conditioning units in hot countries, everyone having access to the vehicles the rest of the world has? Throwing items away every few years...

bc_guy

So you're admitting that the developed world consumes way more than its fair share of the world's resources while the rest of the world has to make do with less. If people in the developed world don't like having to give up these things, then how do you think people in developing countries feel when they are deprived of them.

The world actually wastes a lot of energy and resources on this pyramid scheme growth-based economic model. If things were built to last and infrastructure was set up to use resources in the most efficient ways, then everyone in the world can still live a very high standard of living. But it seems like this won't be happening any time this century. However, sooner or later, world leaders will be forced to smarten up and abandon this growth-based economic model in favor of something more practical and less environmentally degrading.

Siouxie

Not in our lifetime - and I suspect nor our children nor grandchildrens.

magnumpi

It would appear that Obama is embracing this format. He is giving an amnesty to illegal workers who have managed to dodge the law for at least 5 years.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...llegal-immigr/

Maybe Canada will follow the US on this one

Shard

Oh yeah, where did bc-guy disappear to? I hope the Albertans didn't get 'im

Gozit

Sounds good to me. It works for Qatar so why couldn't it work here?


Re: the OP. I think its totally wrong to stop traffic like they did. I agree with Oakvillian's original posts. At a traffic stop you are only obliged to show your driving license. That doesn't prove if you are an immigrant or not. Its just a driving license. I don't carry my passport or immigration docs in my car and neither does anyone else unless they go to the border a lot.

I also disagree with what schnooks posted about the UKBA walking the streets and demanding docs. If I lived in the UK I would be a foreigner but have freedom of movement as an EU. I won't be carrying my Maltese passport or identity card on me to prove immigration as i'm not obligated to as far as I know. So the UKBA officer might ask me for documentation because he overhears me talking and that I have an accent. I don't have any on me. That doesn't mean i'm illegal and he has no reason to detain me either.

not2old

Unless I misinterpreted what you just said ...

yet you'd be OK if the local cops in your neighbourhood who stopped someone that was speaking in a foreign language, asking for identity, likely because the paraoid think there is a bunch of terrorists walking around?

or, in Malta a drunk Brit (speaking gibberish) gets shoved & pushed around by the local police, beaten & locked up, without never asking the individual for their identity?

Policing is just that ... 'serve & protect'