Originally Posted by printer

Whilst we can continue to debate the above over and over one thing is clear, there will ALWAYS be people who are not going to get the vaccine. You can call them what you like, you can spout as many figures as you like about how at risk they are and you can threaten to take away their jobs, their leisure pursuits and whatever else but the fact remains a certain percentage will just not get it for whatever reason and that reason isn't always because they are a nut job. If the figures state that we are 60 times more likely to avoid ICU if we get the shot and some still don't get it then what else can you say? The issue of course with this kind of information is the distrust some have for what is broadcast and lets face it how many people are 100% trusting of the information they read. Flogging a dead horse is one phrase that comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

Alberta has the capacity for 1000 ICU beds. If hasn't approached such numbers at any time.

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat

When you are reduced to Whataboutitism, then I rather think you've lost the argument. I think you've said you've already been vaccinated. If so, then good for you, and try and build your intellectual strawman against mandatory vaccination all you like - but you are wrong.
If you are not, then do the world a favour and do the right thing.

Originally Posted by BristolUK

You can't just say the information is available and ignore the differences in the way presented.
It's still a case of what gets paid attention to. Another good example on CBC for New Brunswick.
Headline - one in five deaths were people vaccinated.

The information about 75% of people vaccinated is there, as is the 80% of people in hospital are unvaccinated and the 80% of deaths are unvaccinated - hence the 20% or one in five.
You don't need to be a mathematician to see that if by far the greater number of people are vaccinated and that the vast majority of those suffering are not vaccinated then your chances of remaining healthy/alive are far greater being vaccinated.
But the chosen headline does not reflect that.

But not only is the headline focusing on the reverse, they've changed the point of reference to a more dramatic sounding it to one in five.

Originally Posted by BristolUK

You are taking it the wrong way.

It's already been established - and I know you have read the information - that a vaccinated person is infectious for a shorter period. This reduces the period during which they may infect others. It's also suggested - from other research - that whatever load is passed on during this reduced period of being infectious is lower than had the carrier not been vaccinated.

That means that the vaccines reduce everyone's chances of getting covid or or becoming ill from it. This is not the same as a vaccinated individual being less likely to 'get it' because they are vaccinated but it does mean they are less likely to get it because of the vaccines that others have received.

It's a subtle difference but it amounts to the same collective benefit.

Originally Posted by bats

Yale Medicine good enough for ya.? "How well it works: Experts continue to learn about Pfizer’s efficacy both in the laboratory and in the real world. Pfizer’s initial Phase 3 clinical data presented in December showed its vaccine to have 95% efficacy. In April, the company announced the vaccine had 91.3% efficacy against COVID-19, based on measuring how well it prevented symptomatic COVID-19 infection seven days through up to six months after the second dose. It also found it to be 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the CDC, and 95.3% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the FDA. Another study, not yet peer-reviewed, provided more new data that brought the efficacy number down to 84% after 6 months, although efficacy against severe disease was 97%.

In August, the CDC also published studies that showed mRNA vaccine protection against infection may be waning, although the vaccines were still highly effective against hospitalization. In one CDC study, data from the state of New York showed vaccine effectiveness dropping from 91.8 to 75% against infection"
.
I'll be back once I've looked at the link you posted. Bye for now


70% of new cases are not fully vaccinated.

There's further data of course on the severity of the infection.
However vaccinated people do seem to be better off.
​​I don't know if this proves what you said was bullshit as I wasn't going for that.

Originally Posted by Mordko

ICU doctors in Alberta beg to differ.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ver-three-days

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

I accept that the numbers in ICU is over "normal capacity". However, that capacity has been increased and, if you look at the numbers from the official sources, you should note that, at all times, the ICU numbers have been around 80% of capacity. The capacity increases as the numbers go up, and decreases as the numbers go down.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

I suggest you look at what I am saying. I have never argued that vaccination does not reduce the effects of C-19. I have simply stated that being vaccinated does not prevent one from catching it, or passing it on.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

That information is already available to them, as every news report makes such statements.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

So, why are the vaccinated not required to prove that they are not carrying the virus, the same way that the unvaccinated are?

Originally Posted by Danny B

I am triple vaxxed, I strongly believe that the old and vulnerable should be vaccinated, but I'm still on the fence regarding children (5-15), and young adults (16-25) who have already contracted COVID and have good anti-bodies. No need for a further vaccine in my opinion.

Originally Posted by BristolUK

I don't know if you saw this on the other thread but the indication is that even young'uns with good anti-bodies will see them wane.

I suppose one could test for anti-bodies and then vaccinate when they get down to a particular level - if it's not 'too late' by the time that is discovered - but it's likely easier and cheaper to just vaccinate