Coronavirus

Old Jul 30th 2020, 10:30 pm
  #2326  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
It doesn't extend to shutting pubs and restaurants I don't believe - and whilst the majority of cases are from generally non pub going communities- can see people just using that as an excuse to go the pub/restaurant to socialise or worse - go to a pub in a neighbouring area to socialise.

Strangely our figures don't look too bad - 846 new cases today I believe, whilst not brilliant, its not exactly a number spiralling out of control or a number that has grown significantly, the numbers have been floating around that for some time with peaks and troughs ( 2/3 day averages seem much of a muchness over the last 4 weeks and are certainly lower than those in June or May).

I really don't understand the whole thing now - if cases are truly "out of control" in those areas its time to close the gyms, pubs etc, essential shopping only again. not keep that all open but not let me go round my mums!!
They're not going to do that. They're trying to control the population without stopping them from spending money. It's always about the bottom line with these people.
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Old Jul 30th 2020, 11:00 pm
  #2327  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
They're not going to do that. They're trying to control the population without stopping them from spending money. It's always about the bottom line with these people.
We need the stupid people to be out-and-about, spending, to stop some segments of the economy imploding.
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Old Jul 30th 2020, 11:14 pm
  #2328  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I suppose the logic is that if an individual goes to an external venue, there will be some PPE/SD measures in place, and it is simply that individual (or small group). But if it's visiting other households, the measures are less likely to be in place, and an individual could infect a number of people in the house. Clearly there are exceptions, one person visiting another in homes is not as impactful as a group going to pub which is flled with other groups, but I think on balance there is a logic to locking down households. And who knows, maybe pubs/gyms are next.
No I sort of get that bit - and understand the logic is I believe to stop the large multi generational households often made up of minority ethnics with large extended families mixing. But we've clearly shown shutting everything works for stopping the spread - if we truly wanting to stop the spread why go for half measures for the sake of 2 weeks of pub/restaurant takings in small areas. It's akin to having a house on fire, the fire crew turning up with a bucket of sand, whilst the fully working fire engine is sat in the station because the chiefs are concerned about the water bill.

For me I could completely get the maximum of 1 person from another household, or no household gatherings of more than 6 people - but makes a mockery that I can't go and sit in my mates kitchen (hypothetical) but hey i can go the gym with him and not wear a mask!

And for what its worth I completely get the "save the economy" bit but I don't think shutting the Red Lion in Rossendale for 2 weeks is going to create any more of a recession than we are already in.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 1:06 am
  #2329  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
No I sort of get that bit - and understand the logic is I believe to stop the large multi generational households often made up of minority ethnics with large extended families mixing. But we've clearly shown shutting everything works for stopping the spread - if we truly wanting to stop the spread why go for half measures for the sake of 2 weeks of pub/restaurant takings in small areas. It's akin to having a house on fire, the fire crew turning up with a bucket of sand, whilst the fully working fire engine is sat in the station because the chiefs are concerned about the water bill.

For me I could completely get the maximum of 1 person from another household, or no household gatherings of more than 6 people - but makes a mockery that I can't go and sit in my mates kitchen (hypothetical) but hey i can go the gym with him and not wear a mask!

And for what its worth I completely get the "save the economy" bit but I don't think shutting the Red Lion in Rossendale for 2 weeks is going to create any more of a recession than we are already in.
I don't disagree. Shutting pubs, gyms etc in the area where the virus is spreading would be the most effective means to suppress it. Perhaps they are wanting to avoid the political backlash from business and/or save furlough payments. Stuck between a rock and a hard place I think.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 1:18 am
  #2330  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

29 new cases over the past 24 hours in BC.

5 in hospital with 2 in ICU with no new deaths.

Haida Gwaii is restricted now for non residents traveling there.

The blue berry packing plant outbreak in Fraser Valley now has 59 linked cases.

Its a long weekend and I imagine people will be traveling and partying again.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...y-30-1.5669497
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 2:12 am
  #2331  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
We need the stupid people to be out-and-about, spending, to stop some segments of the economy imploding.
Yes. And if a few older people happen to catch Covid19 and die, then at least they won't have to pay out those pensions. There really are so many ways for the governments to save money: keep people working even if it is risky ( termed 'low risk' like schools are, ((I don't know what 'low risk' means when we are talking about this awful disease but ?)) and therefore ensure more taxes get paid in by people getting back to work.

It is a joke how confused its all becoming with all the opening and closing everywhere, to travel or not to travel, to shop or not to shop, to attend social events or not. TBH I won't be doing any of it but still the non constraint is as confusing as the constraints now.

I usually look at the weather predictions every morning to see what type of clothes to wear for the day. Now I must start looking for a similar app telling me what I can expect to be able to do with regard to so many things.

All I really know is that the deadlyness of the Covid19 disease hasn't been validly proven to have changed and the only way not to die from it is to stay away from it. We made a really good start of ending it last spring, IDK wat we are doing now? I see that Dieting and slimming seem to have made the grade for high pertenance nearly as much as it did in the early 2000's. Not really a priority is it? Not going to save the world from a Pandemic IMO.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 3:07 am
  #2332  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
No I sort of get that bit - and understand the logic is I believe to stop the large multi generational households often made up of minority ethnics with large extended families mixing. But we've clearly shown shutting everything works for stopping the spread - if we truly wanting to stop the spread why go for half measures for the sake of 2 weeks of pub/restaurant takings in small areas. It's akin to having a house on fire, the fire crew turning up with a bucket of sand, whilst the fully working fire engine is sat in the station because the chiefs are concerned about the water bill.

For me I could completely get the maximum of 1 person from another household, or no household gatherings of more than 6 people - but makes a mockery that I can't go and sit in my mates kitchen (hypothetical) but hey i can go the gym with him and not wear a mask!

And for what its worth I completely get the "save the economy" bit but I don't think shutting the Red Lion in Rossendale for 2 weeks is going to create any more of a recession than we are already in.
You are right the whole thing seems like they just make it up as they go along, no real strategy. You have to wonder how they are going to actually police this latest idea, particularly with the large family groups in these areas. As you say they can always meet in the pub instead, or the gym or where ever else is open. The problem with closing establishments is how and when you re open, that's the critical factor. Its clearly useless to close pubs for example for 2 weeks then open them all up again and judging by that recent story of the 200 people crammed into the pub and someone was infected who then went to a private party its clear the pubs are not all operating with the new regulations.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 3:20 am
  #2333  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by tumbleweedly View Post
Yes. And if a few older people happen to catch Covid19 and die, then at least they won't have to pay out those pensions. There really are so many ways for the governments to save money: keep people working even if it is risky ( termed 'low risk' like schools are, ((I don't know what 'low risk' means when we are talking about this awful disease but ?)) and therefore ensure more taxes get paid in by people getting back to work.

It is a joke how confused its all becoming with all the opening and closing everywhere, to travel or not to travel, to shop or not to shop, to attend social events or not. .....
Confusing doesn't begin to describe the mess that has been created - the US has suffered considerably from poor leadership by the federal government, and a civil war of ideas not only between the federal and state governments, but also between state and city governments. The UK on the other hand just seems to have tried to make the rules as complex and confusing as absolutely possible, with permitted and non-permitted contact, businesses that can and cannot open and a whole load of confusing rules about numbers and who you can associate and where, when and where to wear a mask, social distancing, and what distance is "required", and what the role of hand santitizer is.

I can understand, partially at least, the desire to not set rules too tough as (i) people will soon tire of them, and (ii) some people will just ignore them entirely, but the mess of rules has become unnessarily complex, and then changed on a weekly basis, pretty much ensuring that it is just about impossible to understand what the rules allow this week.

My wife and I have read widely from the eariest days of the crisis in mid-March and deduced the following principles to ensure our own safety:

(i) minimize contact with people outside our family, which comprises Mrs P, little Miss P, and myself. I presume that makes us a "bubble". Minimize means what it says, so shopping trips are conducted singly, and only when we run out of one of our staple foods, which ususually means milk, and that means one shopping trip per week. And all shopping trips are at times of day when the shops are quietest - groceries between 7am and 9am, and DIY shops (about once a month) in the evening.

(ii) practice SD to the greatest possible extent, so shopping during quiet times of day, per above, but then keeping away from other people too - not "hoping" to achieve 6ft, but starting out targeting 15 or 20ft, and trying to maintain that - avoiding grocery aisles with other people shopping in them, waiting 15ft or more away for someone to move, etc. Bypassing "crowds" of two or three entirely, and circling back later to see if the aisle is clear.

(iii) always wearing a mask when "near" anyone when not at home. We adopted this very early, back in March, and have applied it rigorously ever since, always indoors, and outdoors too if we expect to come within 15-20ft of others.

(iv) not treating (i), (ii) and (iii) above as alternatives. Doing all of the above is better than just doing one or two of them - in other words hanging out with others, even relatives, close friends, or neighbours, is best avoided for now. Wearing a mask helps, but not as much as staying at home would. Social distancing helps, but SD + mask is better, .... and staying home is better still.

Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 31st 2020 at 3:23 am.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 5:08 am
  #2334  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Canada Day weekend the gift that keeps on giving. Maybe its a good thing the phone doesn't work sufficiently to do IC, its keeping us home more. I don't particularly feel comfortable in stores where maybe 10% of the people inside are wearing masks. My wife went to her new GP (they wont do phone/virtual appointments like our GP in Vancouver did.) and not even the doctor wears a mask.

I am still looking for a GP, and doing virtual appointments with my Vancouver GP still.

https://www.kelownacapnews.com/news/...ation-changes/

"Interior Health (IH) is reporting a total of 130 cases of COVID-19 in the Kelowna area between June 26, when exposure events were first noted, and today, July 30."

I wonder if this long weekend will lead to an increase in cases for August?





Aero Mexico 696 seems to be a trouble maker.



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Old Jul 31st 2020, 10:19 am
  #2335  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Confusing doesn't begin to describe the mess that has been created - the US has suffered considerably from poor leadership by the federal government, and a civil war of ideas not only between the federal and state governments, but also between state and city governments. The UK on the other hand just seems to have tried to make the rules as complex and confusing as absolutely possible, with permitted and non-permitted contact, businesses that can and cannot open and a whole load of confusing rules about numbers and who you can associate and where, when and where to wear a mask, social distancing, and what distance is "required", and what the role of hand santitizer is.

I can understand, partially at least, the desire to not set rules too tough as (i) people will soon tire of them, and (ii) some people will just ignore them entirely, but the mess of rules has become unnessarily complex, and then changed on a weekly basis, pretty much ensuring that it is just about impossible to understand what the rules allow this week.

My wife and I have read widely from the eariest days of the crisis in mid-March and deduced the following principles to ensure our own safety:

(i) minimize contact with people outside our family, which comprises Mrs P, little Miss P, and myself. I presume that makes us a "bubble". Minimize means what it says, so shopping trips are conducted singly, and only when we run out of one of our staple foods, which ususually means milk, and that means one shopping trip per week. And all shopping trips are at times of day when the shops are quietest - groceries between 7am and 9am, and DIY shops (about once a month) in the evening.

(ii) practice SD to the greatest possible extent, so shopping during quiet times of day, per above, but then keeping away from other people too - not "hoping" to achieve 6ft, but starting out targeting 15 or 20ft, and trying to maintain that - avoiding grocery aisles with other people shopping in them, waiting 15ft or more away for someone to move, etc. Bypassing "crowds" of two or three entirely, and circling back later to see if the aisle is clear.

(iii) always wearing a mask when "near" anyone when not at home. We adopted this very early, back in March, and have applied it rigorously ever since, always indoors, and outdoors too if we expect to come within 15-20ft of others.

(iv) not treating (i), (ii) and (iii) above as alternatives. Doing all of the above is better than just doing one or two of them - in other words hanging out with others, even relatives, close friends, or neighbours, is best avoided for now. Wearing a mask helps, but not as much as staying at home would. Social distancing helps, but SD + mask is better, .... and staying home is better still.
So things are pretty chilled out at Camp Pulaski Great protocol, it's encouraging to know that there are some even more cautious than myself. I think what's happening now, the easing (coinciding with summer) is an experiment of sorts, the public, inadvertently, testing the virulence of the virus. Initial lockdown was a necessary emergency response to flatten the curve, it worked, and now the question is what level of activity can be tolerated while still largely suppressing community transmission. I guess the question for many of us is whether we are willing to be collateral damage in the experiment or not.

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Old Jul 31st 2020, 1:33 pm
  #2336  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Confusing doesn't begin to describe the mess that has been created - the US has suffered considerably from poor leadership by the federal government, and a civil war of ideas not only between the federal and state governments, but also between state and city governments. The UK on the other hand just seems to have tried to make the rules as complex and confusing as absolutely possible, with permitted and non-permitted contact, businesses that can and cannot open and a whole load of confusing rules about numbers and who you can associate and where, when and where to wear a mask, social distancing, and what distance is "required", and what the role of hand santitizer is.

I can understand, partially at least, the desire to not set rules too tough as (i) people will soon tire of them, and (ii) some people will just ignore them entirely, but the mess of rules has become unnessarily complex, and then changed on a weekly basis, pretty much ensuring that it is just about impossible to understand what the rules allow this week.

My wife and I have read widely from the eariest days of the crisis in mid-March and deduced the following principles to ensure our own safety:

(i) minimize contact with people outside our family, which comprises Mrs P, little Miss P, and myself. I presume that makes us a "bubble". Minimize means what it says, so shopping trips are conducted singly, and only when we run out of one of our staple foods, which ususually means milk, and that means one shopping trip per week. And all shopping trips are at times of day when the shops are quietest - groceries between 7am and 9am, and DIY shops (about once a month) in the evening.

(ii) practice SD to the greatest possible extent, so shopping during quiet times of day, per above, but then keeping away from other people too - not "hoping" to achieve 6ft, but starting out targeting 15 or 20ft, and trying to maintain that - avoiding grocery aisles with other people shopping in them, waiting 15ft or more away for someone to move, etc. Bypassing "crowds" of two or three entirely, and circling back later to see if the aisle is clear.

(iii) always wearing a mask when "near" anyone when not at home. We adopted this very early, back in March, and have applied it rigorously ever since, always indoors, and outdoors too if we expect to come within 15-20ft of others.

(iv) not treating (i), (ii) and (iii) above as alternatives. Doing all of the above is better than just doing one or two of them - in other words hanging out with others, even relatives, close friends, or neighbours, is best avoided for now. Wearing a mask helps, but not as much as staying at home would. Social distancing helps, but SD + mask is better, .... and staying home is better still.
Yup...we more or less do the same. We have only seen our daughter and granddaughter outside from a distance of approx 10ft, since the beginning of March. We wear masks when out walking and stay clear of people. Mostly I get groceries delivered, if we go to the store (which is rare) we wear N95 masks and glasses. Our daughter has been working from home and apart from walks, she stays home. The weak link in our family is our granddaughter, she stays with her dad every other weekend.

I am expecting the freezing cold winter months to be difficult. Can’t stand/sit outside and chat, walks will be much shorter. We usually escape to the sun for a few months...not this year.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 3:06 pm
  #2337  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
...... We usually escape to the sun for a few months...not this year. ...
For who knows what reason a friend of Mrs P (not geographically close - Mrs P hasn't met her in over two years) decided with her husband, that a road trip from the east coast to Colorado was a good idea, taking their small child. They are not deniers, so have been taking SD and mask precautions since the spring, and we were a little surprised to hear that they were taking a road trip like that.

Aaanyway, the FB reports of their trip, with all the SD and mask wearing, meeting relatives outside and at a distance, and staying in an Airbnb, which was "remote" (they never met the owner), was that parts of the experience were "scary", notably the toilet stops on the journey. But over all they seemed to have taken all the precautions and things went according to plan.

They got back home, and then the friend discovered that she had caught it!

I guess, looking back, that the road trip doesn't look like it was such a good idea.

Last edited by Pulaski; Jul 31st 2020 at 4:27 pm.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 4:00 pm
  #2338  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Another month of closed borders for Canada.

Another day of misleading stats for Britain.
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Old Jul 31st 2020, 5:26 pm
  #2339  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Confusing doesn't begin to describe the mess that has been created - the US has suffered considerably from poor leadership by the federal government, and a civil war of ideas not only between the federal and state governments, but also between state and city governments. The UK on the other hand just seems to have tried to make the rules as complex and confusing as absolutely possible, with permitted and non-permitted contact, businesses that can and cannot open and a whole load of confusing rules about numbers and who you can associate and where, when and where to wear a mask, social distancing, and what distance is "required", and what the role of hand santitizer is.

I can understand, partially at least, the desire to not set rules too tough as (i) people will soon tire of them, and (ii) some people will just ignore them entirely, but the mess of rules has become unnessarily complex, and then changed on a weekly basis, pretty much ensuring that it is just about impossible to understand what the rules allow this week.

My wife and I have read widely from the eariest days of the crisis in mid-March and deduced the following principles to ensure our own safety:

(i) minimize contact with people outside our family, which comprises Mrs P, little Miss P, and myself. I presume that makes us a "bubble". Minimize means what it says, so shopping trips are conducted singly, and only when we run out of one of our staple foods, which ususually means milk, and that means one shopping trip per week. And all shopping trips are at times of day when the shops are quietest - groceries between 7am and 9am, and DIY shops (about once a month) in the evening.

(ii) practice SD to the greatest possible extent, so shopping during quiet times of day, per above, but then keeping away from other people too - not "hoping" to achieve 6ft, but starting out targeting 15 or 20ft, and trying to maintain that - avoiding grocery aisles with other people shopping in them, waiting 15ft or more away for someone to move, etc. Bypassing "crowds" of two or three entirely, and circling back later to see if the aisle is clear.

(iii) always wearing a mask when "near" anyone when not at home. We adopted this very early, back in March, and have applied it rigorously ever since, always indoors, and outdoors too if we expect to come within 15-20ft of others.

(iv) not treating (i), (ii) and (iii) above as alternatives. Doing all of the above is better than just doing one or two of them - in other words hanging out with others, even relatives, close friends, or neighbours, is best avoided for now. Wearing a mask helps, but not as much as staying at home would. Social distancing helps, but SD + mask is better, .... and staying home is better still.

Early on we managed pretty well with not going anywhere, now we go out a few times a week, can't stock up on essentials really so we have to go out for at least food, prescriptions every week, had to go to the mall yesterday to sort something out with the cell phone bill as the phone wasn't working and we didn't have another phone, I didn't particularly like being in a mall for an hour, few had masks on, and people don't even try to social distance.

I'd prefer to have everything delivered, and not having to go out much, but its becoming increasingly difficult, at one point when doing instacart we were going into crowded stores 3-6 times per day, but so far as far as we are aware have avoided getting it so far.

We don;t socialize with others, eat out, or such, the tricky part of going out is everyone around you not distancing their bodies from yours, seems every-time I turned around in the grocery store someone was 2 feet or less away, no concern at all, but we can't do instacart here, so we haven't been out as much, but eventually one of us will get a job, and it will almost certainly be a public facing job, and difficult to distance from co-workers.





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Old Jul 31st 2020, 5:42 pm
  #2340  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post

Aero Mexico 696 seems to be a trouble maker.
Build the wall, build the wall, build the wall. No wait...a wall would not have helped would it
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