dbd33

I'd say that it is. Property markets, for example, are volatile, lucky timing is the difference between wealth and penury. The difference between winning at investments and winning at the races is that people who do the latter don't typically delude themselves that they did so out of cleverness.

iaink

Experts on the nags might argue that picking winners is not a matter of luck either, studying form, track records, conditions etc etc.

Seems to me that there is a lot in common between the geegees and picking winning stocks or mutual finds...

All I know is I never seem to make any money on either The only sure fire winners are the bookies and brokers.

Aviator

Then one would need to look at the different aspects of finance. Personal financial management, managing income and outgoings, debt management, shop for value, more cut an dried. Mortgages for primary residence would fall into this category, as most need a roof over their head, it is just what represents the best value for each individuals circumstances.

Speculative financial issues, investments, relies on the performance of others, the vagaries of global economies and politics, with a smidgen of good fortune combined with the time invested. Even here some or more speculative than others. Fixed income GIC is an investment, but very conservative, but more certain than throwing $10k on the ponies and hoping it comes in.

Deficient

I find it slightly irritating to have to pay a monthly fee for banking. I have read before that free banking in the UK is only possible because you're not earning interest on the money in your current account (in other words, you don't pay by actually paying, you pay by failing to receive anything). But as far as I can tell, the money in a chequeing account in Canada isn't attracting any interest either so I'm not sure how that fits into the forgoing-interest logic.

I pay a $13 flat fee per month to CIBC for an account with unlimited transactions (chequebooks are free, since I noticed someone brought that up). Certainly CIBC's unlimited account isn't cheapest - I'm sure RBC has a similar account for $2 cheaper - but CIBC seemed to be the only bank I could find offering Visa Debit along with Interac and I wanted that. In a way I guess I am paying $24 per year for the sole benefit of having Visa Debit card, and I'm sure it is not bringing me $24 of real world benefits but there we are.

Having to pay fees to use the cash machines belonging to other banks is a nuisance. I like the way the UK banks just handle all of that behind the scenes and don't confront their customers with it.

I don't yet have a savings account or credit card since I'm awaiting PR status but while researching I have noticed how badly you get stiffed for making transactions through the savings account unless you're very careful about how you juggle things between the savings and chequeing accounts.

The credit cards seem to work on much the same basis as in the UK as far as I have seen but obviously there's no real reason to hold one "for emergencies" here if a credit line is available to you, but of course the rewards can be worthwhile. I only kept a credit card in the UK for emergencies rather than for rewards (admittedly it didn't work out that way during my years as a student...) but I have considered getting a rewards card here since I am disciplined enough to handle the mild juggle involved with running all costs through it and then paying it down each month.

JonboyE

You don't have to pay a monthly fee. At least, not around here. The credit unions offer almost full service retail banking and do not charge. Mrs JonboyE used to be with HSBC where they charged her $8.00 a month to bank there. She is now with Coast Capital who pay her a couple of dollars each month.

I understand that President's choice do not charge a monthly fee either.

Definitly get a credit card as soon as you can. Not only do you you get points/rewards by using it each month and paying the balance you quickly build up a decenbt credit rating. Also, renting some things can be difficult wthout a credit card.

dbd33

Most people bet on house prices. It's the most common way to establish a store of significant wealth. I, for example, managed almost a ten fold gain in the value of one house near Toronto. Why was it near Toronto? Because that was where I was working. If it was near Montreal it might have doubled in value over the same period, near Vancouver, maybe gone up twenty fold. Had it been near London then serious money would have been derived from its sale. Luck.

Granted paying off the mortgage quickly was a deliberate strategy but the influence on my net worth of any planning strategy has been, and I think always will be, minor compared with the influence of luck. Similarly, not playing Russian roulette has been a factor in my continued reasonable health but that's not an influence as great as not being hit by bus and not catching AIDS, things that haven't happened only because I've been lucky.

In my view it's an unwillingness to concede that inherited wealth and luck are the primary determinants of affluence that leads to the lunacy of working people voting for the likes of Romney and Harper. Their policies do not create opportunites for affluence for anyone other than Romney and Harper.

Note that this isn't an argument against working hard, I accept that to a limited degree one can influence one's fortunes by hard work but it's not enough of a factor to warrant anyone patting their own back for doing some.

ultrarunner

Bruv'er...I hear ya loud and clear over. The whole paying fees for your own dosh really gets my goat, and it's because of people like you just making the move over, that I created the thread.

I avoid using other banks ATM to be honest, and you won't catch me using one in gas station, 7/11 etc You never know who is lurking around the corner phishing for PINS to clone your card (yes I know it can happen even in the grocery store or mall), but why take the chance

It's like the whole paying to receive a call with mobile phones....that is another whinge on it's own. As I remember it back in blighty, if you are on PAYG with no credit left, you can still receive calls

Novocastrian

I suppose no-one will be surprised when I agree with that completely. I've only bought and sold houses on occasions when I've relocated far away from the last house. I've been lucky every time. Dumb luck.

The hard work bit was mostly done before my mid 40s since when I've been able to command a slightly ridiculous salary for living on my professional reputation. That was partly due to luck as well. But only partly. If I have any special skill, it's knowing when and where to hawk myself next.

I do not consider myself to have financial acumen and I don't bet on geegees or buy lotto tickets or gamble on stocks and such. I can't help what's done with my pension fund (I hope geegees aren't involved) but I consider all that stuff rather tawdry.

My dad did a bit of that after he retired and was lucky. He's now dead and so's my mum, so a bit of inheritance goes into the pot as well.

jericho

It seems extremely arrogant for some people on here to claim they know how to beat the system, when some of the smartest financial minds in the world (apparently) all created the worst global recession on record.

If you bought a house that rose significantly in value, you were lucky that you were able to do so in a time where the circumstances allowed it to happen.
We're not all in the same boat.
Think of the first time buyers in the UK or US who saved for years to put a down payment on a property in 2007... only to see it all turn to shit within a year or two later. All the saving, all the sacrifice... for nothing.

The fact is that there is no magic recipe. Some people are lucky, some people are irresponsible, and some people might find themselves in a situation over which they had no control.

To be successful financially you need a whole lot of luck and discipline, but if I had to chose one or the other, I'd chose luck every time.

Novocastrian

Basically, +1. Although as both dbd33 and I said, hard work and a bit of nouse isn't to be forgotten.

ultrarunner

Couldn't agree more with you, someone passing by and reading some of the comments, might be forgiven for thinking some people have it so good and they can't do wrong.

Yes some of us have sold properties and made a tidy profit here and there, but I have it down to luck really, and the fact that every time I move, I don't have to pay realtor, lawyer, mover, property assessor etc fees

I am sure even Donald Trump will tell you he has been lucky, and it's not his business acumen that got him out of most of the mess he has found himself in

jericho

Agreed.

Jingsamichty

Proof indeed that even if you're lucky, you're still a prick.

dbd33

If he'd just left his inheritance in the bank he'd be richer than he is now.

bats

We just were refused an increase on our credit card as our credit rating was lousy. The credit card company doesn't understand why it's lousy as we pay the card off every month. We have no debt at all and yet have a crap credit rating. Apparently.