Re: "Brexit"
 

After a national referendum, I think the only way to go is to abide by it completely as the will of the people. Any attempt to hijack it in parliament or block it in a regional assembly will only do more harm to democracy in the long term.

Saying this, I don't see why the UK shouldn't try to get the best possible deal and include remainers in the negotiations because you have got to try to take everyone with you.

There seems to be more talk now of invoking article 50 sooner rather than later. I can see arguments both ways, but probably in days or weeks rather than months would be better in order to settle the speculation and uncertainty.

Boris has also just apparently come out and said that a general election may not be necessary if he wins the Tory leadership battle. Lots more to come so do tune in..

Re: "Brexit"
 

Well I left Italy for my trip to England knowing exactly where I stood in life and in Italy. I came back on Saturday and now I know nothing.

Re: "Brexit"
 

Join the club. The entire population of the UK are in it.

Re: "Brexit"
 

I've tried to explain the whole thing to Italians by saying that the difference between Remain and Leave is like the difference between the well-heeled ladies and gentlemen of the PD-NCD coalition (who think that if they're rich everyone must be) and the readership of Libero (ignoramuses who live on prejudices).

Re: "Brexit"
 

As I listen to the arguing between the Tory party leadership candidates, about EU citizens rights to remain in the UK, I'm just getting angrier and angrier. Of course they should get to remain!
But what is upsetting me is the way in which British citizens in the EU are being utterly ignored by their own government! I haven't heard ONE voice of concern about how this will affect OUR rights! Whatever reason we decided to move away, for work, for housing or for purely the desire to give it a go in a different EU country WE DON'T DESERVE TO BE IGNORED! We have not turned our backs on the UK and despite being proud Britons with close ties to the UK many of us have had our right to vote stripped away by our own government, a punishment unheard of for citizens of other nations. We are now being dragged along against our will in a wave of inward looking nationalist fervour that has been unleashed by this ridiculous referendum. Now we are also bearing the brunt of stupid jokes about being migrants. My son returned home from summer camp today to tell me he'd been called a migrant, which was a first.

When will these horrible stupid politicians realise they are going to drive our counrty into the ground if they continue with this project. Once the UK is out of the EU trying to strike a more favourable deal with a non EU country that already trades with the EU, the EU will come up with a better deal everytime to keep the UK out of that market. It is sheer arogance to think the UK can do it alone.

The UK should grow up. There were always other ways to stop migration, if Italy can come up with a system that means EU migrants have to have health insurance for 5 years before getting permanent residency why can't the UK? And the UK government could have reduced non EU migration, countries that don't even have a reciprocal migrant deal with the UK. India for example, fiercely protects its own labour market.

Re: "Brexit"
 

:goodpost:

Re: "Brexit"
 

Been living and working in Italy since 2010 as an English teacher....no qualifications, though I got my job thanks to my Italian girlfriend
I have earned "officially" 3500 euros last year, although I did earn almost twice as much... no INPS, no permit to stay so far... everything was hunky-dory till this crap happened
what's going to happen now ?
dave

Re: "Brexit"
 

Who knows? Sit back and wait like everyone. You should at least be registered as resident in the town hall though. Not because of Brexit but just because you should. You're an illegal otherwise.

Re: "Brexit"
 

"But there is no reason to let the extremists on both sides of the debate dictate how this story has to end. There is a moderate middle in both Britain and Europe that should be capable of finding a deal that keeps the UK inside the EU."

The problem appears to be in both the UK and the EU, a substantial portion of the population is not content with the path the EU and the UK are on, and have problems looking forward 10 or 20 years and expecting progress at least in their eyes. Many EU friends don't like the path the EU is on and expect a very different Europe in the future, but are resigned that nothing can be done. Britain may not be the last to look at exiting the EU.

Re: "Brexit"
 

The Brexit vote seems to be creating a lot of uncertainty.

I had a newsletter from my old University saying they were worried about the research grants sourced from the EU and the situation of the EU students who come to study there. Universities are important businesses in UK cities where a lot of old industries have vanished.

If things don't get put in order soon we will just end up with a deep recession.

U.K. Business Expectations Fall ‘Off a Cliff’ After Brexit Vote - Bloomberg

Re: "Brexit"
 

I have another worry. I've been getting a small pension from the UK since I was 65 (Oct 2014) and am now entitled to something from Inps, which I should be getting in August. I haven't got many contributions in either country (my fault, no one to blame for that), but on the basis of an international agreement the two countries together consider that I have enough overall to be entitled to a pension (20 years minimum). Will that agreement break down?
Actually it shouldn't because these agreements are not necessarily connected with EU membership - there are a lot of similar agreements with non-EU countries - but I'm not trusting anyone. I feel that in the present atmosphere the Tory loony right will get the upper hand and see EU immigrants in Britain as intruders and us emigrants as unpatriotic, all to be ignored or treated badly.
Maybe we should form a joint protest movement with the EU citizens living and working in Britain.

PS It seems that to be treated decently you have to come from the European Economic Area (EU plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway) or Switzerland (although it is neither EU nor EEA). The question is whether Britain will still be allowed to stay in the EEA.
Another question that I raised a few days ago - but no one seems to know the answer - is why cost-of-living increases are given to pensioners only if they live in countries with an agreement about pensions. Britain gives pensions on the basis of contributions and I don't see why rights should depend on residence.

Re: "Brexit"
 

You obviously have selective hearing. It was clearly stated yesterday that government's position about whether EU citizens can stay in the UK after Brexit would be reliant on reciprocal rights being granted to British citizens living in the EU. This is the position of several of the Tory leadership candidates including Theresa May.

Re: "Brexit"
 

Can some explain why Italy can insist EU migrants have private health cover for first five (4?) years and the UK can't?

Also, doesn't anyone else find it ironical and appalling that the next prime minister of the UK, the one that will be negotiating Brexit on our behalf, will be chosen by the 150,000 UNELECTED conservative party membership?

Does that mean that if you are disenfranchised UK citizen living in the EU for over 15 years, and a paid up Tory party member, you DO actually get to chose the next PM?

Re: "Brexit"
 

Because NHS care is residence based not contributions based. Some types of EU migrants (students) in the UK do require health insurance however.

Not particularly. The UK isn't a presidential republic. You elect an MP to represent you in Parliament, not the party or Prime Minister.

Probably.

Re: "Brexit"
 

"Not particularly. The UK isn't a presidential republic. You elect an MP to represent you in Parliament, not the party or Prime Minister."

yes i know that. The point is this: elected MPs vote on the first two rounds to get it down to two nominees. The final choice is given to the wider paid up tory party membership, so Mr Smith-Smyth-Smith gets a say in next PM because he paid his party subs. That's not democratic in my opinion.