Republic Day
Feb 22nd 2019, 7:32 am
#166
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Republic Day
EMR ----do you read posts???????
I was replying to the Poster above who was discussing historical happenings.
We are not discussing Englishmen----we are discussing a small Indian Community!
I stated exactly as you have that most Muslims were perfectly ordinary people. Can you read??
That does not excuse terrorism or does it in your view????
I was replying to the Poster above who was discussing historical happenings.
We are not discussing Englishmen----we are discussing a small Indian Community!
I stated exactly as you have that most Muslims were perfectly ordinary people. Can you read??
That does not excuse terrorism or does it in your view????
Feb 22nd 2019, 7:48 am
#167
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
Ask any Englishman if they know who their ancestors were over 500 years ago and do they still hold a grudge for what happened., they will look at yiu as if yiu were mad.
Muslims follow a different religion, that's the only difference they are not from a different planet.
Its no wonder there is so much strife in the world with views such as yours.
Muslims follow a different religion, that's the only difference they are not from a different planet.
Its no wonder there is so much strife in the world with views such as yours.
Please preach to the Muslims that Hindus also follow a different religion, that’s the only difference and that they are not from another planet. That they don’t deserve to be despised or converted en masse.
Missionary activities aiming to eliminate all other cultures and impose a ‘common god’ or a common doctrine on all humanity is responsible for more violence, hatred and strife wouldn’t you agree? What happened to live and let live?
Your issue sir is that you see India as somehow unique. I see it just as any other people with common aspirations of other people - to maintain their culture, maintain their individuality, live peacefully and prosperously. For all your venom, please consider how many people have actually died in all Indo-Pak conflicts versus the number of casualties in the several barely reported clashes between Hindus and Muslims in India.
Reality is one tough customer.
Feb 22nd 2019, 8:09 am
#168
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
Actually I am a Madam!!
Far from excusing the British Empire most of my posts state the oposite and I am criticised by other posters for doing so.
My husband is Indian belonging to a small Hindu community originally from Kashmir who fled the Mughals, great travellers they ended up on the West coast, where many then fled the Portuguese! Our children are equally Indian and British so I am hardly racist!!
I do disagree with you regarding Muslims there are different groups and most are perfectly ordinary human beings.
Far from excusing the British Empire most of my posts state the oposite and I am criticised by other posters for doing so.
My husband is Indian belonging to a small Hindu community originally from Kashmir who fled the Mughals, great travellers they ended up on the West coast, where many then fled the Portuguese! Our children are equally Indian and British so I am hardly racist!!
I do disagree with you regarding Muslims there are different groups and most are perfectly ordinary human beings.
I disagree with you that most Muslims are normal human beings. All Muslims are perfectly normal human beings. Feel free to indulge in your personal bias against people who have realistic world views. Muslims are perfectly normal people. But their doctrine - Islam - and its precepts come first and foremost to them, and should you care to read the Koran like I have, you will know that Hindus, or people like the Hindus, are not particular favorites of their God. The more they delve into their doctrine, the more the idol-worshippers in India look like tasty meat. I vehemently advocate against violence. I think might is always more stupid than right.
But to not recognize differences where they exist is stupid. It is one thing for people to behave good to you; Muslims are as well-behaved as they come, but it is another thing entirely when talking about political status and rights. People don’t come cut out as a terrorist or a radical; they are made radical in response to what they see around them and the content that influences them.
People get radicalized mainly when the reality they see is far different from the utopia their doctrine promises. Socialists, Muslims, other doctrinaires all the same.
I can’t think of any school of thought within Hinduism or any other Indian religion for that matter which demands followers to kill or convert. Killing or converting is not a quotidian Muslim issue either. To pretend there is nothing wrong with a doctrine which promises the gullible heaven in return for killing people is cruel and stupid. This gets proven time and time again - where do you think Adil Dar of the recent Pulwama attacks was hoping to get to, and what religion influenced him? Just a guess - it wasn’t Confucianism.
It takes some guts to commit suicide, so you can bet there are at least a hundred others who are seething with so much resentment but aren’t acting on it. You tell me, why is it good to force people to live amongst such people? Why can’t the Hindus just be left alone? It is pure wickedness towards ordinary people which forces them to be constantly fearful of their fundamental political status and rights.
As I have said earlier, an agenda-free reading of history will bring a lot of things to relief. I am getting confused between you and EMR, so apologies.
Feb 22nd 2019, 8:22 am
#169
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
Ask any Englishman if they know who their ancestors were over 500 years ago and do they still hold a grudge for what happened., they will look at you as if you were mad.
Muslims follow a different religion, that's the only difference they are not from a different planet.
Its no wonder there is so much strife in the world with views such as yours.
Muslims follow a different religion, that's the only difference they are not from a different planet.
Its no wonder there is so much strife in the world with views such as yours.
Why is a Catholic not allowed to be a monarch in your country?
We are not discussing personal animosities sir. To my knowledge, no Muslim has hurt my family or ancestors on record that I am aware of. You don’t have to be a victim to have an opinion. And I am not some closet neo-Nazi raging against their neighborhood kebab shop. If you have followed my previous posts, I don’t hold a grudge against Muslims or the British for that matter. History happened. I don’t want to kill or convert anyone for anything. Neither do most Indians. All is forgiven. But do they care to forgive us for the unforgivable crimes of worshiping idols, venerating our ancestors and generally being docile, cheerful and productive?
History is not the reason for the current unease over Muslims in India. Far from it. It is very much what is happening in the present, and not just in India in isolation. Please tell me how many bombings in the world have been committed by Hindus against their definition of kaffirs. Non-state actors I mean. Please mate, there is only one India, spare it.
Feb 22nd 2019, 10:24 am
#170
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
I agree with you, 90% if not more of those living on the subcontinent probably had no contact with those who used Indian to describe them.
They probably, never even heard the word Indian..
It's probably true that those who referred to the inhabitants of the subcontinent as Indian had no interest in their ancestry, religion or culture.
Indian was just a convenient shorthand which became a universal definition ...
They probably, never even heard the word Indian..
It's probably true that those who referred to the inhabitants of the subcontinent as Indian had no interest in their ancestry, religion or culture.
Indian was just a convenient shorthand which became a universal definition ...
The Arabs called the land Hind, so did the Persians; reams and reams of books have been written about Indian medicine, Indian mathematics, Indian sciences and so on. They knew what was up.
Feb 22nd 2019, 12:13 pm
#171
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
Madam
I disagree with you that most Muslims are normal human beings. All Muslims are perfectly normal human beings. Feel free to indulge in your personal bias against people who have realistic world views. Muslims are perfectly normal people. But their doctrine - Islam - and its precepts come first and foremost to them, and should you care to read the Koran like I have, you will know that Hindus, or people like the Hindus, are not particular favorites of their God. The more they delve into their doctrine, the more the idol-worshippers in India look like tasty meat. I vehemently advocate against violence. I think might is always more stupid than right.
But to not recognize differences where they exist is stupid. It is one thing for people to behave good to you; Muslims are as well-behaved as they come, but it is another thing entirely when talking about political status and rights. People don’t come cut out as a terrorist or a radical; they are made radical in response to what they see around them and the content that influences them.
People get radicalized mainly when the reality they see is far different from the utopia their doctrine promises. Socialists, Muslims, other doctrinaires all the same.
I can’t think of any school of thought within Hinduism or any other Indian religion for that matter which demands followers to kill or convert. Killing or converting is not a quotidian Muslim issue either. To pretend there is nothing wrong with a doctrine which promises the gullible heaven in return for killing people is cruel and stupid. This gets proven time and time again - where do you think Adil Dar of the recent Pulwama attacks was hoping to get to, and what religion influenced him? Just a guess - it wasn’t Confucianism.
It takes some guts to commit suicide, so you can bet there are at least a hundred others who are seething with so much resentment but aren’t acting on it. You tell me, why is it good to force people to live amongst such people? Why can’t the Hindus just be left alone? It is pure wickedness towards ordinary people which forces them to be constantly fearful of their fundamental political status and rights.
As I have said earlier, an agenda-free reading of history will bring a lot of things to relief. I am getting confused between you and EMR, so apologies.
It also be added that I am most sickened by identity politics. This setting up of communities against each other has been the bane of India for the past 60 years and robbed us all of that which can’t be returned - time. The religion question has been answered before, thankfully nearly 70 years on now. It should not be an issue any longer.
We thought we were over all that and look forward to improving our own lives with little interference. In its stead, we have all manner of needling taking place, constantly pricking the population with looming catastrophe and demographic deluges so that they are scared into voting alternately for religious parties or parties which use its position as arbiter to gather votes. Terror attacks. Love Jihad. Ghettoisation. Utter BS. What about the economy you have ruined all these years?
These are not questions which the affluent face. These are very real questions for those who are only now starting to raise their living standards. I am not alone when I say neither the Hindus nor the Muslims actually want to punish each other. It is a doctrine that fundamentally wishes for universal supremacy which forces people, alternately threatening them or cajoling them with promises, that forces people to act against their fellow citizens. It is just wrong.
Feb 22nd 2019, 5:57 pm
#172
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Republic Day
This debate started long ago with the statement that the modern state of India, its geographical area, etc owes its existence to the period of British rule..
Nothing like that created in 1947 , the multi cultural multi ethnic, multi religious nation that came into existence then had existed before.,stretching from the far north to the southern tip under one rule.
That is the India the world knows today and has done since 1947..
Feb 22nd 2019, 10:35 pm
#173
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,712
Re: Republic Day
No one is arguing with that.
This debate started long ago with the statement that the modern state of India, its geographical area, etc owes its existence to the period of British rule..
Nothing like that created in 1947 , the multi cultural multi ethnic, multi religious nation that came into existence then had existed before.,stretching from the far north to the southern tip under one rule.
That is the India the world knows today and has done since 1947..
This debate started long ago with the statement that the modern state of India, its geographical area, etc owes its existence to the period of British rule..
Nothing like that created in 1947 , the multi cultural multi ethnic, multi religious nation that came into existence then had existed before.,stretching from the far north to the southern tip under one rule.
That is the India the world knows today and has done since 1947..
Feb 23rd 2019, 3:38 am
#174
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
No one is arguing with that.
This debate started long ago with the statement that the modern state of India, its geographical area, etc owes its existence to the period of British rule..
Nothing like that created in 1947 , the multi cultural multi ethnic, multi religious nation that came into existence then had existed before.,stretching from the far north to the southern tip under one rule.
That is the India the world knows today and has done since 1947..
This debate started long ago with the statement that the modern state of India, its geographical area, etc owes its existence to the period of British rule..
Nothing like that created in 1947 , the multi cultural multi ethnic, multi religious nation that came into existence then had existed before.,stretching from the far north to the southern tip under one rule.
That is the India the world knows today and has done since 1947..
The successor states to British India were the Dominion of India and Pakistan. Dominion of India looked nothing like the India of today. The position of the princely states was returned to status quo ante after British withdrawal. Large parts of today’s republic were never there to begin with, including the nearly 600 princely states.
This accounted for about 35% to 40% of the land area and about 30% of the population of the time. They were brought within India thanks to the efforts of VP Menon and Vallabh Patel. These don’t sound like the names of natives of Yorkshire. What part of “British India collapsed with the formation of Pakistan” are you not getting? Please refer my previous comments.
So many aliens have done what you’ve (rather the British of the day) done in India it is not even special anymore. Multi-culti? British first? You’re big on your fact-free breakfast today aren’t you!
You have nothing except your statement. A loud, hollow, fact-free one at that. Kind of like Activia Yoghurt!
I’ve laid out the facts of the matter. Someone judge please and settle this.
Last edited by madathil.krishnanunni; Feb 23rd 2019 at 3:55 am.
Feb 23rd 2019, 8:27 am
#175
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Republic Day
Bhai Sahab Mante Hi Nahin!
The successor states to British India were the Dominion of India and Pakistan. Dominion of India looked nothing like the India of today. The position of the princely states was returned to status quo ante after British withdrawal. Large parts of today’s republic were never there to begin with, including the nearly 600 princely states.
This accounted for about 35% to 40% of the land area and about 30% of the population of the time. They were brought within India thanks to the efforts of VP Menon and Vallabh Patel. These don’t sound like the names of natives of Yorkshire. What part of “British India collapsed with the formation of Pakistan” are you not getting? Please refer my previous comments.
So many aliens have done what you’ve (rather the British of the day) done in India it is not even special anymore. Multi-culti? British first? You’re big on your fact-free breakfast today aren’t you!
You have nothing except your statement. A loud, hollow, fact-free one at that. Kind of like Activia Yoghurt!
I’ve laid out the facts of the matter. Someone judge please and settle this.
You may not like that, you may have a dream for a different, 1 nation dare I say hindhu centric sub continent but recorded history is recorded history and you cannot change that..
Feb 23rd 2019, 10:21 pm
#176
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,712
Re: Republic Day
You like Bipat refuse to accept that the Hodge podge that was the sub continent before British rule transformed into the sovereign nations that now exist.
You may not like that, you may have a dream for a different, 1 nation dare I say hindhu centric sub continent but recorded history is recorded history and you cannot change that..
You may not like that, you may have a dream for a different, 1 nation dare I say hindhu centric sub continent but recorded history is recorded history and you cannot change that..
What had been part of the India in 'recorded history' was divided off into Pakistan at Partition.
Feb 24th 2019, 5:24 am
#177
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 59
Re: Republic Day
You like Bipat refuse to accept that the Hodge podge that was the sub continent before British rule transformed into the sovereign nations that now exist.
You may not like that, you may have a dream for a different, 1 nation dare I say hindhu centric sub continent but recorded history is recorded history and you cannot change that..
You may not like that, you may have a dream for a different, 1 nation dare I say hindhu centric sub continent but recorded history is recorded history and you cannot change that..
Feb 24th 2019, 9:38 am
#178
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Republic Day
No it was not , once again you are ignoring facts and recorded history...
Your ancient civilation had as much to do with the sub continent in 1947 as does every other nation on earth now with its history off 1000s years ago..
.
Feb 24th 2019, 1:35 pm
#179
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,712
Re: Republic Day
(Perhaps those who lived in the "Hodge podge" pre-1947 know more about the "facts" than you do!!)
Feb 24th 2019, 1:48 pm
#180
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Republic Day
You no longer claim that the India under British rule was the same a that you refer to as Bharat. .
Finally we are making progress,
You ignore the fact that it was Indian politicians who agreed to what is India today.
Last edited by EMR; Feb 24th 2019 at 1:53 pm.