Republic Day

Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:43 am
  #121  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
Given that you do not believe that your OH who was born in India, an Indian national who moved to the UK is not in your mind a migrant proves that .your logic process has to be questioned..
You have again confirmed that Indian was a " foreign " shorthand not a nationality..
England became nation at least 800 years before India so your comparisons are meaningless , with The United Kingdom created thec18th century. With the act of union..

Maybe what upsets you is that the inhabitants of vast areas of the Raj chose not to become Indian citizens, when the state of India was created , even millions more would have done had they been given the choice

I have no local loyalty never have had, I am British,..
EMR , you are beyond help! At least allow me to know that my own husband came to the UK specifically to take an exam and then return. He was asked to take a 6 month job due to shortage in his particular career. He did not "move" to the UK.

I said "India" was a translation of Bharat, the OP above has confirmed this for you. It is the name of the country they belonged to!!! India is 'big', they also have local loyalty, what you think is not a rule for the entire world

There was nothing to stop any Indian from going to Pakistan if they wished. It was surprising that more Muslims from South India didn't go!
You are probably not aware that in general whereas Muslims in north Indian States are descended from invaders those in southern States are more likely to be converts and not so strict.

You say you are "British", Indian people are 'Indian/Hindustani'.

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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:54 am
  #122  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
EMR , you are beyond help! At least allow me to know that my own husband came to the UK specifically to take an exam and then return. He was asked to take a 6 month job due to shortage in his particular career. He did not "move" to the UK.

I said "India" was a translation of Bharat, the OP above has confirmed this for you. It is the name of the country they belonged to!!! India is 'big', they also have local loyalty, what you think is not a rule for the entire world

There was nothing to stop any Indian from going to Pakistan if they wished. It was surprising that more Muslims from South India didn't go!
You are probably not aware that in general whereas Muslims in north Indian States are descended from invaders those in southern States are more likely to be converts and not so strict.

You say you are "British", Indian people are 'Indian/Hindustani'.
Bipat yet again your first line proves that you do not think as the rest of the human race does
Your OH is a migrant , if he is not then so are 100s of thousands of others from India who have made the UK their home...
India is derived from a greco tPersian word for the land below the Indus , look it up..
So now those you called Indian before independence are now descended from invaders, not descended from those who lived in the sub continent before they arrived..
You really do not know what you think do you...
Arabs ( Muslim) traders , invaders , were in South India from the 8th century onwards, that is how Islam arrived in the area, they settled, occupied some areas ,just as in the North , maybe not on the same scale but still from outside of the sub continent...

Last edited by EMR; Feb 12th 2019 at 9:20 am.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 9:16 am
  #123  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
Bipat yet again your first line proves that you do not think as the rest of the human race dies.
Your OH is a migrant , if he us not then so are 100s of thousands of others fromnIndua who have made the UK their home..
India is derived from a greco tPersian word for the land below the India, look it up..
So now those you called Indian before independence are now descended from invaders, not descended from those who lived in the sub continent before they arrived..
You really do not know what you think do you..
OH has a home both in India and the Uk.

Yes I know the origin of the word 'India' a translation of the Sanskrit word Bhartiya, how many times do I have to tell you?

Obviously some Indians were descendants of the Mughals.
There have been successive waves of people from the north-----5,000 years ago Dravidians, followed by Indo-Europeans etc. etc.
I think you need to do some reading EMR or discuss a country you personally know something about.

Again you put a late edit. Obviously although most came in from the north some invaders came via coasts.
It is a general, note general Fact that northern Muslims are/were more strict than those in the south and more of the latter were converts. If you lived there you would know.

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 12th 2019 at 9:45 am.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 10:08 am
  #124  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
OH has a home both in India and the Uk.

Yes I know the origin of the word 'India' a translation of the Sanskrit word Bhartiya, how many times do I have to tell you?

Obviously some Indians were descendants of the Mughals.
There have been successive waves of people from the north-----5,000 years ago Dravidians, followed by Indo-Europeans etc. etc.
I think you need to do some reading EMR or discuss a country you personally know something about.

Again you put a late edit. Obviously although most came in from the north some invaders came via coasts.
It is a general, note general Fact that northern Muslims are/were more strict than those in the south and more of the latter were converts. If you lived there you would know.
A migrant is a foreign national who moved to another country.
That is what your OH is in the UK.
You may feel that admitting that makes him less superior in your mind to the qmillion plus other migrants from India in the UK, as if migrant is a negative term, but that is your problem...
India is derived from of greco, persian words for the land below the Indus, look it up....
I do not need to live in India to know that your versions of recorded history, derivation and terms for those who resided there in the centuries before the creation of the modern stare are just your usual fantasies which applies to just about every subject you post on...
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 10:27 am
  #125  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
A migrant is a foreign national who moved to another country.
That is what your OH is in the UK.
You may feel that admitting that makes him less superior in your mind to the qmillion plus other migrants from India in the UK, as if migrant is a negative term, but that is your problem...
India is derived from of greco, persian words for the land below the Indus, look it up....
I do not need to live in India to know that your versions of recorded history, derivation and terms for those who resided there in the centuries before the creation of the modern stare are just your usual fantasies which applies to just about every subject you post on...
Yes OH when he is in the UK he is a migrant -----what is he when he is at home in India? I am just being accurate.
I know what "India" is derived from! What do you the Bhartiya means??????????????
In France the England is termed 'Angleterre' by your logic that means 'England' doesn't exist!!!!!

OK--- then EMR----tell us what would the description of the ancestors of OH be when they lived before the British came? Given that they lived exactly where we do?? If they were not living in India / Bhartiya where were they living???

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 12th 2019 at 10:42 am.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 7:26 pm
  #126  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yes OH when he is in the UK he is a migrant -----what is he when he is at home in India? I am just being accurate.
I know what "India" is derived from! What do you the Bhartiya means??????????????
In France the England is termed 'Angleterre' by your logic that means 'England' doesn't exist!!!!!

OK--- then EMR----tell us what would the description of the ancestors of OH be when they lived before the British came? Given that they lived exactly where we do?? If they were not living in India / Bhartiya where were they living???
He was living in whatever the local inhabitants called that local kingdom.
To the world outside of the subcontinent the shorthand used would probably be Indian, a foreign description..
Because of the subcontinent huge size , different racial groups, religions, cultures, mulitple independent kingdoms, , again much easier for those from outside to use the shorthand India. or Indian
If you look at the history of any city or kingdom you will not see the word Indian used until British influence and rule came about...
The Persian and Greek words for the land below the Indus, morphed into Latin Indianus and then English India...
The French Anglaterre means land of the Angles, England was called Angleland by the Anglo Saxons , the dominat group in what is nowcEngland and this morphed into England..

Progress it is hard work but finally after multiple posts you accept that your husband is a migrant. Nothing wrong with that, Brits who live abroad are also migrants..
As a UK passport holder in India he is a tourist or long stay resident ,when he is British., that is his legal definition.,
Indian is his race unless he prefers to be known by whatever those born and living in that area call themselves,

Last edited by EMR; Feb 12th 2019 at 7:58 pm.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 7:52 pm
  #127  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
He was living in whatever the local inhabitants called that local kingdom.

Progress it is hard work but finally after multiple posts you accept that your husband is a migrant. Nothing wrong with that, Brits who live abroad are also migrants..
As a UK passport holder in India he is a tourist or long stay resident ,when he is British., that is his legal definition.,
Indian is his race unless he prefers to be known by whatever those born and living in that area call themselves,
Yes at last-----"Progress"-----"Indian is his race"------so you finally accept the 'Indians' exist not invented by the British!!!!

"Tourist"??-----I wouldn't dare repeat that to him!!!!
(Actually his legal definition is OCI as is mine)
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:02 pm
  #128  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
He was living in whatever the local inhabitants called that local kingdom.
To the world outside of the subcontinent the shorthand used would probably be Indian, a foreign description..
Because of the subcontinent huge size , different racial groups, religions, cultures, mulitple independent kingdoms, , again much easier for those from outside to use the shorthand India. or Indian
If you look at the history of any city or kingdom you will not see the word Indian used until British influence and rule came about....


Progress it is hard work but finally after multiple posts you accept that your husband is a migrant. Nothing wrong with that, Brits who live abroad are also migrants..
As a UK passport holder in India he is a tourist or long stay resident ,when he is British., that is his legal definition.,
Indian is his race unless he prefers to be known by whatever those born and living in that area call themselves,
Yet again you add an 'edit' after a reply.
Look at the history of the subcontinent----look up the meaning of the word Bharata/ Bhartiya.

Did you look up the travels of Shankaracharya that I told you about?

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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:05 pm
  #129  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yes at last-----"Progress"-----"Indian is his race"------so you finally accept the 'Indians' exist not invented by the British!!!!

"Tourist"??-----I wouldn't dare repeat that to him!!!!
(Actually his legal definition is OCI as is mine)
Once again you chose to ignore facts.
Indians were not called Indians until outsiders arrived. , it is a convenient shorthand, nothing more,.
The inhabitants of the UK are also known by a convenient shorthand British, but we are Welsh, Scottish, Irish etc.
No Great Britain existed when these 3 different countries existed as independent areas.
Just as India was a collection of 100s of different kingdoms, territories , different races, religions etc who all called themselves by their preferred definition, not Indian..
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:16 pm
  #130  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
Yet again you add an 'edit' after a reply.
Look at the history of the subcontinent----look up the meaning of the word Bharata/ Bhartiya.

Did you look up the travels of Shankaracharya that I told you about?
If you are correct then why is your name not used as the official name of the country , why is the Anglisised shorthand derived from Indianus used..
My suggestion, the founding fathers of the state knew better than to use an ancient description for a region that for 100s years has little if any comparison with what existed in ancient times.
They knew better than to ignore the huge racial, cultural, and religious changes that occurred since that time.
What you refer to has as much to do with the India when Europeans arrived as does the UK of pre Roman times..
How would those who are not devout Hindu nationalists react if the name of their country was changed to that of an ancient Hindu kingdom that only encompassed part of the sub continent,and is as far from being " Indian" as it is possible to be. ...
A recipe for disaster and intercommunal strife..
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:23 pm
  #131  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
If you are correct then why is your name not used as the official name of the country , why is the Anglisised shorthand derived from Indianus used..
My suggestion, the founding fathers of the state knew better than to use an ancient description for a region that for 100s years has little if any comparison with what existed in ancient times.
They knew better than to ignore the huge racial, cultural, and religious changes that occurred since that time.
What you refer to has as much to do with the India when Europeans arrived as does the UK of pre Roman times..
How would those who are not devout Hindu nationalists react if the name of their country was changed to that of an ancient Hindu kingdom that only encompassed part of the sub continent,and is as far from being " Indian" as it is possible to be. ...
A recipe for disaster and intercommunal strife..
It is not MY name------both names are used in the Constitution document.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:40 pm
  #132  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
It is not MY name------both names are used in the Constitution document.
But not in the name of the Republic, as it us known globally, what is on the passports. Is it.?

I have looked it up, India is the first word in the constitution to describe the country followed by Bharat " a union of states." ., not that which existed in ancient times.
Indian is the term to be used in all official language.
I have seen the government offices, the military bases, the word on the entrances, on paperwork is Indian, on my esta India, on my passport stamp India...
All derived from the beaurocracy of British India.
My derivation of the nation's name and the shorthand to describe its people's do not come from European sources but that of an Indian academic....
So I am more than happy with the facts I posted..

Last edited by EMR; Feb 12th 2019 at 8:58 pm.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 8:59 pm
  #133  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
But not in the name of the Republic, as it us known globally, what is on the passports. Is it.?
Bharat Ganarajya/Republic of India.

'India' used on passport for foreigners to understand!!

Again you edit!!
How many Government offices and military bases did you visit in your 3 week trip??

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 12th 2019 at 9:04 pm.
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Old Feb 12th 2019, 9:20 pm
  #134  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by Bipat
Bharat Ganarajya/Republic of India.

'India' used on passport for foreigners to understand!!

Again you edit!!
How many Government offices and military bases did you visit in your 3 week trip??
As you will know anyone visiting India will see a government office and military base on almost every street corner.
The name plates, sign boards are clear for all to see...
The huge military complexes in Rajahstan proudly had the title Indian, did not see Bharat once.
Is it the Indian air force or the Bharat air force , what is the term they use to refer to themselves.. .

As an aside, our guide mentioned that his nephews now use a venacular in conversation with an increasing number of English words.
Their grandparents complained that they can no longer understand them.
I just wonder how often the word Bharat is now used by the growing number of young people , is it just a hangover from the past., used by Hindu nationalists and academics...
,

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Old Feb 12th 2019, 10:07 pm
  #135  
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Default Re: Republic Day

Originally Posted by EMR
As you will know anyone visiting India will see a government office and military base on almost every street corner.
The name plates, sign boards are clear for all to see...
The huge military complexes in Rajahstan proudly had the title Indian, did not see Bharat once.
Is it the Indian air force or the Bharat air force , what is the term they use to refer to themselves.. .

As an aside, our guide mentioned that his nephews now use a venacular in conversation with an increasing number of English words.
Their grandparents complained that they can no longer understand them.
I just wonder how often the word Bharat is now used by the growing number of young people , is it just a hangover from the past., used by Hindu nationalists and academics...
,
India has a "military base" on "almost every street corner" ??????? EMR even for you this is bizarre!!

I pointed out that the word Bharat referred to the ENTITY now known as 'India'. You were under the impression that the British invented the country.

The word is used in a general way as a 'name', as I told you Bharti is a common girls name.


Obviously 150 years of British rule names were changed and came into everyday use. Just as some of the the names of cities/towns were changed ---NOT ALL. though.

English is an official language in India. Those Ministers from the Southern States who object to Hindi were allowed to 'swear in' in English, in fact some northern Ministers also used it.

Most people use some English words in everyday conversation including the elderly. The middle classes in British times who went to school were taught in English.
They didn't all 'drop dead' in 1947!!!!


PS ---when you said "military"---were you mixing up with police? The police constables have a similar uniform.

Last edited by Bipat; Feb 12th 2019 at 10:13 pm.
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