You are rambling again Bipat, it is your distorted views, you revisionist history , ignorance of facts that keeps this thread going.
Fortunately you are not representative of those we have met on our travels.
I stop replying to your nonsensical questions and statements long ago..

OK--- EMR-- tell us the FACTS.

When on "your travels" did you meet Kashmiri people? (You raised the subject of your travels!)
What in your 'view' do the majority of Kashmiri people want?
Which country is responsible for harbouring terrorists?
What is the attitude of Muslim majority Bangladesh to Pakistan?

Why is it nonsensical to ask you questions about YOUR views and holday plans?

My holiday plans are my business and your questions are usually just pure fantasy derived from your rambling mindset having nothing to do with the points being discussed.

I have just read an interesting report on Huffington post which credits Pakistan with winning the moral and PR battle and India portrayed as a nation of warmongers.
TV presenters dressing in military style uniforms, Bollywood stars calling for the destruction of Pakistan, a minister referring to the air strikes by India as a " non military " intervention.
The recent actions are seen to be more about to boosting Modis lagging election prospects than dealing with a conflict that has resulted in tens thousands of deaths.. .

Could you explain how a question asking you what Kashmiri people want is "pure fantasy" -----

Certainly expecting any answers from you IS pure fantasy! How would we all know about your trip to India if you didn't keep telling us??

Huffington post!----could you give a link.

So the Pulwama attack which started the recent events was arranged by who????

https://www.newsbytesapp.com/timelin...e-till-october (The Paris conference).

The responding airstrike WAS a non-military intervention, it targeted a terrorist training camp in forest areas.
The following Pakistan attack was at a military installation and soldiers were killed.----I presume you know that the planes used were those donated by Obama to be used only against terrorism not military purposes.

If you are able to access any Indian news you will see that all the Indian political parties were united in their condemnation of the Pulwama attack.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/68011018.cms

Certainly a few days later old politics came into play again---- The election is soon to be announced ------the timing is by law.

PM Nawaz Sharif and Modi were making progress with talks-----what happened to Sharif!!!!----the inevitable.
Khan is trying to preserve his position!!
Imran Khan's Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party tweets in Hindi on worthiness of Nobel Peace Prize- The New Indian Express

1) There are certainly different opinions about the taxation in India by the British.



As usual you are side-stepping the issue: it is one thing to have different opinions, it is another to have a nonsense pinion that doesn’t remotely relate to the evidence available.

2) I agree you do not have familiarity with the situation today.



I am not sure you do either except for casual observation since you have repeatedly denied the opinions and evidence of experts both Indian and foreigners.



I do value your observant on current events and observations from being there- the perfect harmony between Hindus and Muslims you describe, and how centuries of animosity has disappeared is something I wouldn’t have thought about.

3) As I said before you disagree that for any country scientific research and advance is important and will help the economy.



Actually this why I question our reading comprehension- I said neither! What I said was simply India has too many in dire poverty to afford such ventures. And whether such ventures benefit the economy is not a give which I thought would be obvious. You are right though I think the money better spent on the poor at this stage, and I am quite confident the USA and Russia can run space programs. By your logic I can imagine the President of Bolivia announcing a space program,

4) I am not avoiding the questions ----it is just that in your aim to criticise India for practically anything you equate totally different situations and different times in history.



Not at all- I simply responded to your comments and consistent avoidance that India is no better, or no worse, than other countries who use force for their political objectives. And on the contrary you consistently ignore longer term Indian history to focus on your anti-British mania.



I have said that the Kashmir situation was different at the time of independence to now, Nehru had a complicated background of loyalties etc. Which I won't discuss here.



I have no disagreement that the situation today is much different them, and it wouldn’t surprise me even under the heels of Indian occupation a majority today might wish to stay in India- but Idia has for decades been afraid to find out.


Hyderabad have told you that I know little about apart from different accounts I have read.



Perhaps if you are discussing and defending India med takeover the one with larger territory may be of interest.





Goa -----I DO know about, and a referendum was considered and thought irrelevant



How convenient!



. (You never mention Daman and Diu---why not answer that question?)



What is there to answer? Is there sometime negate that India does takes over territory and doesn’t seek to ascertain officially the wishes of the people?




Goon people were already part of India, they were given the choice of being an independent State or joining Maharashtra.



Goans were not part of the political entity India formed in 1047, and after 1961 they were not given a choice whether they wanted to be part of India.



Afterwards their choosing to be or not be part of a neighboring stateis of complete irrelevance to the question discussed- which I think you know but have a problem facig the facts you have in perhaps 100 posts tried to avoid.

It is impossible to answer your questions which are based on ignorance of the situation.



Since you cannot deny that India (a) used force (b) did not consult the people via referendum. It is not an issue of my ignorance but your avoidance of eh specific facts that were being discussed.





The problem is that you do not see invasion and occupation by a foreign power of a distant land as wrong I do. Particularly when there is no attempt to settle in the colony just making use of it.

5) I do not think objecting to being called an extreme Hindu nationalist akin to Hitler is 'PC--victimhood’. I am not a Hindu!!



I know you are not Hindu by birth, and do not believe in all the beliefs of Hitler. Simply you agree with Hitler about the use of force to take over territory for eh same sort of justifications you give. You appear o exhibit sometimes extreme Hindu nationalism- saying if Muslims didn’t like it they could leave. I could just imagine you howling and throwing your usual accusations of prejudice, ignorance, anti-Indian feeligs, if someone said Asians living in the Uk were told if they didn’t like it they could just go home.


What do you mean by self-determination?





It is a common term in political science, international relations and science for a people to have the right themselves to determine wich natonal entity they do or dont wish to be part of.

[QUOTE=Bipat;12647503]1) There are certainly different opinions about the taxation in India by the British.

"The problem is that you do not see invasion and occupation by a foreign power of an distant land as wrong I do. Particularly when there is no attempt to settle in the colony just making use of it"

No Bipat the problem is I just deal with the fact that invasion and occupation is just part of history .Read what you are saying-that invasion and occupation ok if it is nearby ?.You state exacty what EMR and I have pointed out-the sheer hypocrisy of your position, and it is British actions you particular object to, not Indian or Moghul ones for example. And you object more because the British didn't emigrate to India more ( and presumably more strongly effected an age old culture) ? "Just use of it" we have been discussing-
On the one hand you support a country being occupied by a foreign power then you talk of religious groups wanting separate groups. India has many religious groups they are all equal.
(I do suppose you know about the difference in treatment of religious groups in Goa by the Portuguese---it is now equal under Indian law!)


Are the homeless and poor in the UK affected by the Royal family and politicians driving in limousines what do YOU do about it?


the one hand you support a country being occupied by a foreign power then you talk of religious groups wanting separate groups. India has many religious groups they are all equal.

Discussing facts concerning British rule is not the same as supporting or not supporting it.

IAre the homeless and poor in the UK affected by the Royal family and politicians driving in limousines what do YOU do about it?

What on earth does that have to do with India's space program ? The situation in the UK fundamentally different than India, but yes any wasteful or prestige expenditure above the needs of dire poverty I would object to. (The little I know about the revenue and expenditures of the royal family, the Crown Estate, and government payment related to official functions, and the tourism benefit doesn't seem o net out at such a cost). That would apply to any country but worse in third world countries with such dire poverty. You seem to have no perspective. and only care about India's image- otherwise you have the same outrage and revulsion at India's prestige expenditures.(As far as the UK I am from the northeast, so yes I am appalled at the expenditures of politicians in the UK)..

Your usual cumbersome post----Morpeth WHY do you not reply in the usual way??????

1) Taxation----- your view is an "opinion" the views of others are "nonsense"!!

2) You choose which views you agree with and these views become 'evidence'.
How many times do I repeat points which you ignore, I have NOT said there is PERFECT harmony between religious groups -----I SAID the majority get along with each other day to day in most areas.

3) The space programme was started by Nehru years ago-----I have said it wasn't appropriate then. It wouldn't be appropriate to start it now.
BUT NOW to waste all the research, the progress, put people out of work etc. is a different matter.
Morpeth are you not able to realise differences in different timing of events?

4) "Anti---British Mania"-----???? I am British!! I think that there was much wrong about the Empire Raj ---and the refusal to allow independence -----it was the British Governments of THOSE times. Why cannot you see that? Do you approve of EVERYTHING Britain does?????

Kashmir "heels of Indian occupation", the State is ruled by its own Chief Minister and has its own Constitution----"heel"?
I would have thought with your views on the importance of economy the trade and economy which relies on being part of India, would have your approval??

Regarding Goa ---as I said your complete lack of knowledge regarding the area, makes it impossible for you to understand the situation.Has any Goan Government Minister ever mentioned a referendum on independence?????

5) I said the people of Hyderabad seem happy with their situation - --- Large numbers did not show an inclination to leave when partition happened in 1947. Since then division has been for other reasons not religion----As I said there is freedom of religion .
That is quite different from saying if they don't like it they can leave---you are twisting words.

"Asians"---I presume you are referring to Indian people----well yes, they came voluntarily, so if they don't like it they can go home and many do---or go to other countries.

Yes, self determination the right not to be occupied/ruled by a foreign country that has no connections with its people.

You are determined to insist that I am in some way a Hindu extremist. I am not in any way religious---except to think Jesus had good ideas if un-workable!-
Hinduism anyway is a way of life----and philosophy rather than a religion----and there are multiple different groups.

Goan Hindus are said to be particularly strict. Personal 'folk' experience confirms this.

I am not in any way Indian except as OCI as a spouse---(apparently if Indian would certainly be an inferior in your eyes!!)

[QUOTE=morpeth;12647761] Another bizarre post----so I will just reply to a couple of points.
"Invasion and occupation is just part of history"???? So that's alright then? UK should still be ruling India?????
"Near by" I presume you are referring to Goa??? It is 'part of'-----look at a map!!
Same people in every way. With family members both sides of borders. (In fact at village level the borders were porous and people moved between the two areas).

The hypocrisy is that yourself and twin poster---put posts on the TIO part of the Forum condemning Brexiters, for what others describe as promoting Empire 2, when you are promoting Empire 1.!!!!!!

[QUOTE=Bipat;12647803] Given that You do not understand what Invasion and occupation actually mean , they are just terms you have adopted to support your fact and record of history denying views..
Once again more rambling nonsense from you, one of your pathetic repetative inventions, no one is promoting Empire 2.., Empire 1 on this thread...

Apart from yourself supporting India's occupation of territories that were not part of the agreed map defining India in 1947, when the state came into existence..

I think you need to take a long break..

[QUOTE=EMR;12647822] I was replying to the post of your twin Morpeth.

The political map of India as defined in 1947 did not include 'Goa' because it was still 'ruled'/occupied by Portugal.

Morpeth used the words "nearby"------I said look at a (geographical) map------it was 'within'.

If you look at different accounts you will see the varying words that Goa was----- "liberated", "rescued", "invaded".

I agree with you that the Remainer accusation is wrong ----Brexiters are not promoting Empire 2-----

However certainly you and Morpeth are 'promoting', 'excusing', 'praising', 'admiring'--- Empire 1.

[QUOTE=Bipat;12647829] The map did not include Kashmir or Hydrabad , both annexed by India..
I came across the act that created both India and Pakistan.
It details the territories of both nations.
No mention in it of Hydrabad or Kashmir and Jammu as being part of either nation..


Once again rambling, we are stating historical fact.
Something you are allergic to.
I could post about the Roman, the Turkish, Austro Hungarians,French, all past empires.
Quoting historical fact does not suggest any support for them in todays totally different world with different values.
You seem unable to differentiate fact from your own revisionist views..

[QUOTE=EMR;12647846] The post you were replying to concerned Goa. FACT.
(Kashmir and Hyderabad have been discussed previously).

I think India--- 1947 -----Goa --1961------are hardly " totally different world with different values".

(You pick out the historical views that you want to believe and call other views "revisionist"-----there are as you say multiple books about any time in history with multiple views.)

In 1947 and 1961----it is knowledge by being there at the time and present day memory.

[QUOTE=Bipat;12647865] You seem incapable of following this thread.
News for you it's 2019.

[QUOTE=EMR;12647894] EMR --- You are just incapable!!

News for you there are millions of people who can tell you from personal knowledge what were the actual happenings of their countries in 1947 and 1961.

Actually this thread was started by scot47 regarding India and ww1-- 1914!!!!!

[QUOTE=Bipat;12647918] I repeat its 2019,that you live in the past confirms that you are incapable of of an adult debate.

More diversion on your part, nothing new there..
There are millions in Kashmir, Assam etc who have suffered also sincec1947 from the loss of their liberties, freedom of self determination and the deaths of their loved ones.