scrubbedexpat142

One of the first deaths in Hungary was of a talented, young British diplomat, aged 37.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

Nearly everyone who catches the virus shows no symptoms.
Of those who do show symptoms, for most people they are mild.
A very small number of people show flu-like symptoms.
An even smaller number are so ill that they need hospital treatment.
An even smaller number than that will die.

Boris was unlucky, although everyone around him was not.

If you are 70+, then you are at risk from this virus (because the older a person is, the more likely that they have a serious health issue), especially if you know about a serious health issue you may have. Therefore, you may or may not wish to isolate yourself from others, until such a time that herd immunity has established that there are no hosts left for the virus.

Health issues increase the risk of susceptibility to the virus, but they do not guarantee death from it.
Again, if a person believes himself to be at risk, then he may wish to isolate himself. It would not make sense for him to wish to isolate others though, any more than it would make sense to wish for a pedestrian to wear a seat belt.

.. and yet this hasn't been the case. The expected rush of hospital admissions never came, even though the virus has been in the UK since mid-November at the latest.
I've had the virus. All my family has had the virus. Not so much as a sniffle, even from the 97 year old granny. No coughs from the 77 year old stroke victim with lung disease. Hmmmm.

If "getting it right" means killing thousands of people indiscriminately from the effects of economic damage, then maybe they got it right.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

No KNOWN health conditions, you mean.

Assuming that this was in the UK, since the maximum number of deaths from covid-19 in the UK is currently a maximum of 1300, then you are exceptionally unlucky to have known two people who have died from it. At age 40, each one of them were four times more likely to have been struck by lightning than to have died from the virus.
If you can generate those kind of odds again, then I would like to send you a hundred pounds so that you can buy me some lottery tickets.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

How can a person use public transport or travel, when such things have been prevented by the government?

NobodyHasThisNameYet

That's a shame.
I read about him. It says that he tested positive for SARS-CoV-2.
I wonder what he actually died of.

scrubbedexpat142

Do you have any statistics of those who have died as a result of the economic consequences of the lockdown?

Do you have any learned forecasts of likely deaths due to the economic consequences of the lock down.

Do you have statistics of those who died directly as a result of the recession of 2008 (for comparison as there were no lockdowns?

christmasoompa

How lovely of you to make light of their deaths. I shall suggest to their widows and children that I'll split any lottery winnings with them shall I? I'm sure they'll appreciate that.

What government? Both are allowed in the UK? I'm just wondering if you are really being as nonchalant about the virus as you say you are. Out of interest, how old are you, presumably young so don't think you're at risk at all?

FenTiger

He only started working at the British Embassy in November 2019.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

That's a shame.

I wonder how many other people have recently started new jobs and have died in other random ways.

I do wonder what it was that killed him.
A lot of the early victims were killed by being placed on ventilators, which mechanically force air into the lungs, when the virus actually effects the ability of the blood to carry oxygen.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

I'm not making light of them.
I'm saying that the chance of a single "healthy" 40 year old dying from the virus is vanishingly low.
I'm saying that the chance of two "healthy" 40 year olds dying from the virus is even lower.
I'm saying that the chance of personally knowing two "healthy" 40 year olds who have died from the virus is so low, that those are the kind of odds involved in winning the lottery.

Buses are a recent thing here, and travel hasn't been allowed until recently.
I don't have to take buses, but would not have a problem taking one if I had to. It would be my choice to do that.

I am "nonchalant", because I've made a pretty thorough study of the available facts, and these facts show that this virus isn't the great plague we have been told it is.
My age is irrelevant, because my age has nothing to do whether or not a particular individual wishes to isolate himself from others. If someone wants to do it, then they can do it.
What's unreasonable is for the economy to be shut down when the people working in it do not have an unreasonable risk of dying from this virus.

No one has addressed that point yet though.

scrubbedexpat142

And you have failed to address (quantifiably) the question of "death by economic consequence". And when (if) you do, we don't want underlying conditions such as long term burden of debt, etc.

christmasoompa

Ah ok, as you seem to focused on the UK and their stats, I'd assumed you were in the UK. Are you in Hungary then?

NobodyHasThisNameYet

I think I mentioned that already above, but again:

Economic damage leads to:
- poorer quality of life, which leads to lower life expectancy. This is why people in Haiti do not live as long as people in Switzerland
- less money for health services, which means greater chance of death from non-diagnosis, poorer quality treatments, and non-treatments
- greater chance of death from crime, due to harsher economic conditions contributing to crime
- greater chance of death from stress, since stress lowers the level of health of a person
- greater chance of death from war, since economic damage leads to a greater chance of war
- greater chance of death from "societal upheaval"
- greater chance of death from suicide

In California, doctors have been dealing with a spike in suicide.
In the UK, we are seeing a spike in stroke and cardiac deaths due to healthcare not being available, or for fear of going to hospital. We are seeing a spike in young people who are going to A&E with cancer symptoms, due to milder cancer symptoms not being addressed earlier.

On the plus side, we haven't had many deaths on the roads for a couple of months........
BAN CARS!!!!

By "burden of debt", are you referring to a country going into greater debt due to the lockdown, meaning that future generations have less money to spend on things like healthcare?

So, a common situation: granddad believes every piece of garbage that he hears from government or reads in the paper. He is terrified of the virus consequently. "We must all live under house arrest! It is for our own good!", he exclaims.
"But surely if you wish to isolate then you can do so, and we can support you in doing this, but there is no scientific nor moral reason to place those not at risk, under house arrest", says a bystander.
"No, we must all live under house arrest or we will diiieeeeeeeeeeee. I know, because an expert said so", replies the granddad.
Ten years later, the grandaughter of the granddad dies of cancer, due to the devastation caused by the lockdown supported by her grandfather, which meant that there were not adequate funds to spot her cancer early enough to save her.
He doesn't know that she has died, because he has already died because rather than the health service spend the money on keeping him alive, they decided to just let him die due to lack of funds caused by the economic devastation.
The End.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

No, I'm in the UK.
Buses are on the go now, but for a couple of months they were not.
There are far less buses about now though. No point in running services if there aren't many people who need them.
Same for trains. I live near a line and before, there were maybe 40 trains a day. Now there are two.

NobodyHasThisNameYet

Ah, I misread that bit, but this leads to excess deaths as well.
Every pound spent on debt repayment is a pound which cannot be spent on things which those alive at the time would prefer to spend it on, such as healthcare.
In 2016/17, debt repayments were £40 billion, which people may consider would have been better spent on other things.
Borrowing for capital projects which will be enjoyed by future generations is a fair and useful thing to do.
Borrowing to fund the day-to-day running of a country is not.