Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

Then when they visit relatives they get a PIO and sail through the Visa saga.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

I do not think they would give up their Indian passports given the choice bit it is required by the Indian government. They do not allow dual citizenship.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

ok Ithought there were problems with PIO status, my point they come here absolutely hate it, they get PIO status go home. They now hold a foreign passport I assume India wont reinstate Indian passport. Just seems a big risk

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

many Goans gave up their Portuguese passports because they had to. An example was made of one who refused to and was placed under house arrest until he died (for some 3 decades) in Candolim, and the message was clear to the Goan population. The choice was, stay and starve (no govt jobs or facilities) or change nationality no matter what. Some left and are still in Portugal and Brazil, and the UK. The UK (one more time for newbies) has a long and remarkable link with Goans specifically. There is no comparable relationship anywhere, and therefore unless an onlooker has knowledge of it, it is difficult to appreciate.

By the way, India does not allow dual nationality. WIth the global identity problems, it is probably better anyhow to maintain only one citizenship instead of dual (or more), as more countries seem anxious to dump responsibilities than defend their citizens rights when there are alternative citizenships available to carry the burdens.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

As someone else stated, the Indian constitution does not allow dual citizenship so if any Goan takes up a Portuguese passport they have to relinquish their Indian one.

However, if they were born in India they can apply for an OCI card which allows them a visa for life and the possibility (if 5 years after registering as an OCI, and they have lived in India for a year) to apply for Indian citizenship.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

So I think we have now established, from several directions, that an Indian has nothing to lose by giving up their Indian passport. There is OCI, PIO, or simply get it back again............so lets not pretend it is any great sacrifice for them, eh?

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

Wonder if the Rochdale Cowboy (Gordy Brown) has been Reading expats hence his massive faux pas (" cock up" for those on the "doles"...

K-C

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

I received this very interesting take on immigration from the UKIP general secretary yesterday ,which in reflection could also include the Dutch or any other old colonialist countries ? :confused:

"Many thanks for this. This problem is not limited to Portuguese citizens living in Goa; the same situation exists with people in a number of countries who are entitled to French passports for example. Yet more ammunition for leaving the European Union - we cannot sort out this fundamental problem whilst we remain members."

Yours,

Jonathan Arnott (UKIP General Secretary)

K-C -concerened about sustainable immigration:blink:

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

I am suprised to see the kind of posts on this link -

to begin with let me say that i am goan and have lived in britain - not on portuguese documents but having studied (in indiaa & UK) and being retained on legitimate highly skilled work there. i agree that this may be an exception but i think its strange to see posts here that believe all goans would go to the uk to work as taxidrivers and use their gardens as toilets.

secondly i now work in mumbai - my income, savings, lifestle, return on investments and health care is much better than i (or many of you) could have expected to have in europe.

despite being goan i have strongly believed that that british in goa have only added value to society - not for your money or your white arse - but adding to cultural diversity of the place and bringing in new ideas / perspectives.

i have strongly believed that goa is a lot better of having the british / europeans some in than indians from other parts of the country as they maintain heritage structure when they buy them; they mostly buy to live; and normally stay away from the under-hand activity that most north indians are so reputed for.

however it is also for you to realise that india is no more under the rule of your country and it is the legitimate right of the fedral government to frame immigration /investment policy as it finds suitable and for the state govt to implement this. this is not a policy only against the BRITISH and it applys to all non-indian nationals.

THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT does this all the time - pls do a read on how it started a 'FRESH TALENT INITIATIVE' & a HSMP and keeps changin the rules for this based on what is felt necessry for the economy ... many students have invested a lot of money only to find themselves high-&-dry !!! including some friends of mine- i still maintain in this case IT IS THE RIGHT of the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to frame policy to suit the local populace.

in this case the justification for disallowing purchase of propoerty bu non-indians was that it is getting unaffordable for local people. I DONT AGREE with this arguement - AND IM SURE MOST GOANS DONT - its the north indian money / speculative investment that has resulted in the price spike. but that is politics

ALSO some posts have mentioned how by brining in money / buying real estate the british have contributed to the economy - PLEASE LET ME REMIND YOU THAT NONE OF YOU DID OUT OF CHARITY TO THE GOAN PEOPLE. you did it because it was CHEAP; A GOOD INVESTMENT AND YOU HAD A GOOD HOLIDAY / RETIREMENT at a fraction of what it would cost you in europe. so dont be whining as if you did a favour and have been wronged. you all did it in your individual selfish interest.

finally for those of you who are unaware of history 19th december 1961 is liberation day in goa / india. however international documentation of history categorised it as the CONQUER of GOA by INDIA. as taking indian nationality (and therefore forfeiting portuguese nationality) was mandatory and possibly involuntary ; Goan's born in portuguese GOA (and therefore born in portugal) HAVE THE LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO PORTUGUESE CITIZENSHIP. pls note that unlike the british the portuguese didnt think they were superior and treated territories they colonised as a part of their country - which inlcluded elected representation in LISBON.

the subsequent movement of goans on a portuguese passport to britain is ientirely FULLY LEGITIMATE ; and if it upsets you people so much why dont you have your government quit the EU as nigel farrell and his UKIP has long been campaining for. But you know that BRITAIN WILL BE QUITE A non-entity in todays world without the collective clout of the EU............ or IS IT JUST JEALOUSY

throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.

....... as for the sarpanch guy - if he is in britain it means he has taken the portuguese passport and surrendered his indian one.... he will now be treat just like any british person (by law at least) untill he has an OCI after which he still cant buy any agricultural land AND MOST DEFINITELY CANT HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE so wont be a sarpanch ever again

goans & british have long shared a very good and meaning full understanding. I understand that some british in goa have been wronged. but you mustn't hold it against ALL GOANS. there are real estate & political lobbies with strong vested interests and vote banks - as in any country. even i have lost all hope for goa. but the posts on this link sound like a bunch of people who are frustrated and venting their anger on ALL GOAN and it reminds me a some indians who go abroad ; fail to find work and come back and blame it on "RACISM" when in fact they are LOOSERS.

a indian acquaintance was once attacked in the uk. when i enquired it turned out he had been asking for it being in a crime prone area ; late in the night in questionable company. and it proved my belief that if you stay away from trouble - trouble often stays away from you. MANY (not all) INTERNATIONAL BUYERS IN THE GOA PROPERTY MARKEY HAVE SUFFERED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES TRIED TO CIRCUMVENT THE RULES AND DID SO ASSOCIATING WITH THE SCUM OF GOAN SOCIETY - and it is these people defining their opinion of goans. have you not heard of " mAY THE BUYER BEWARE?"

-------- i hope you all would take this defence in the good spirit in which i offer it ------ only to TRY and set some things straight - ITS NOT THAT GOAND DONT LIKE THE BRITISH - they are a soft target for politicians with vested interests and puppets in the control of a real estate lobbY that lack any ethics or values.

the abusive langugage against ALL goans in quite unwarranted - it just reflects a BIGGOTED MINDSET when you think that all goans dont know to use the toilet. if that were the case why did any of you british people choose to come to goa at all in the first place - did you want to learn to live like this - shtting and pissing in the garden?

TAKE THEM ON - TAKE THEM TO COURT - FIGHT IT OUT AS ANY INDIAN CITIZEN WOULD HAVE TO. if you are in the right - justice will come even if it takes time.

All nationalities are welcomed to live on RENTALS WHICH anycase makes more sense given that rentals are so CHEAP in goa compared to the price of purchase.

AND IF ITS TOO FRUSTRATING FOR YOU TO TAKE - you have the option to do what i have done - LEAVE GOA - go elsewhere in India - let me assure you it wont be long before you are back in praise of the same system you have been abusing.


FINALLY I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL - but one of the reasons i decided to join this forum was that im willing to do my 2 bits to help those of you facing hurdles with life in goa. its a limited perspective that i have to offer - but its available for those who are interested.

CHEERS!

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

Hi Equality,

Welcome to the forum, yes you have some very vailid points but conversely some unjust points !
If you look at my last line of my post it reads concerned about sustainable immigration which for my part covers both side of the arguement for both countries.
In the main the people on this forum have an arguement against the goan government not the Goan people themselves,of whom many like myself have longstanding friendships stretching back years.
On the subject of putting money into the local economy I think you miss the point, the long termers spend their hard earned tax paid savings in the local economy supporting the butcher, baker and candlestick maker during our 6 moth stays, many of us help in local charitable causes which would suffer considerably were they to lose that help.
We have been accused on several occasions of spending as one minister so eloquently put it our "doles" in Goa, as a person who has worked since I left school at aged 15 over 40 years ago I find that most insulting -particulary as I today find out if I am being made redundant from my job due to the recession :thumbdown:
One only needs to look at the hoodlums and criminals who are in charge of the system in Goa to see where the real problem is, where did Shri Pacheco and the like get his money from ?
I wish you well and look forward to your points from the other side of the arguement

Dev borem korum !

K-C

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

Good Morning Equality and welcome to BE. quite an informative post from your prospective. As KC said you have many valid points. I have met quite a few of the members on BE and most of them help with local charities in Goa, or help individuals, our argument is not with the
Goan people but the Government and its advisors.
Have you managed to read through Buyer Beware?
As for Goans working in this country I can only thank the wonderful doctors that have treated me in UK hospitals.:thumbsup:

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

before i can get into the content i must say that this is what i have liked most about british people - to have an unbaised look at my perspective and get balanced response - something i could expect from few in india.

Kan-conned :
i like the idea of sustainable immigration nearly as much as i like the idea of no border controls internationally. However as long as some countries do have immigration controls it is for those countries to decide what bset suits their local populace / economy & review this to changing environment. This applies equally to britain as it does to india as to dubai.

i know that most people on this portal really have little against the goans in general - i was really making a few points in response to few comments (im sure they were intended to be funny & possibly they were) about the goans using their gardens as toilets; being fined in the uk for those habits (both of which may well be happening) -but cant be applied to the entire goan community ; and the anger at people going to the uk on portuguese passports is quite unfair as its perfectly legitimate. evenyone looks for new opportunities / experiences just as in the case of british who came to goa and its for the respective govenments to frame to suitable legislation if they wish to prevent it.

I also do understand that the incomes are hard-earned ; post taxation / social contributions; and i think the minister had no business no comment on this - they (goan ministers) should restrict themselves to their own areas of expertise and intellectual level which is limited to discussions on coconut trees breaking roofs or bull-fights not beyond. you can hardly waste time to care about what they say - let alone expect a sensible opinion from them on the economy or public policy.

that said it is my stand that though the best of contributions with best of intentions have been made by britsh in goa (and it is to be appreciated) - property is always high-risk / high - return instrument. those who are lucky and got out at the right time would be laughing their way to the bank; other would be unhappy. but if you put all your savings into a risky investment (includes political risk) - theres really nothing anybody other than your lawyer can do to help. so many have been affected by the scrapping of regional plan 2011 with retrospective effect - but that does not mean it was wrong. besides the local charitable causes, which i agree could suffer considerably were they to lose british help ; the rest though it may have been made from tax-paid savings is consumption and the primary MOTIVE was ones own need NOT charity.

it is for this latter part of the consumption & spending on property that i made a limited point that - while on one hand i understand the pain of loosing hard earned savings - you can't go pontificating that these were contributions (to the economy) as the INTENT was consumption not to do the Goan a favour (which is indeed a by-product) and the same amount of consumption would have const much more in britain - so infact it was a WIN-WIN. today when bali is more cost-efficient so many british are quite happy to go there rather than goa and rightly so!!! - i apologise to the affected if this view seems a bit insensitive.

the less said about pacheco the better. this is one part i am in full agreement. these people are the reason goans have to look elsewhere / abroad especially the educated. over the last 3 decades goa systemtically been deteriorated to a place suitable for only hoodlums and those have already accumulated wealth to live (in silence). this is problem not only to british but also to many of us goans. i would have loved to live in goa at a fraction of my current income - but i can see no way to make a honest living through im extremely well /professionally qualified. that said - its the way much of india is functions - even the better educated - there is a serious lack of values and ethics - and if you have these you suffer for it.

NONI:
besides the above....... though not much can be expected from the govt. maybe you all could organise into group that undertakes policy advocacy on issues relevant to british people - possibly identify & connect through the limited sensible pockets within the government, and maybe try and get to keith vaz and his sister for any support you can get.

i have not read through 'buyer beware' - the title itself is sufficient for me to take advice from RELIABLE counsel ... reliable is key here and id be happy to connect anyone who needs this with my acquaintances who are likely to fit into this segment... though i would still reccoment youdo your own due dilligence on the persons reliability.

Kan-conned / noni / others - I would like to know your views on any other points you feel are unjust.

I would also like to apologise again to the many british who support local charities for any insensitive comments, esp the spending point - it was not directed at these invaluable contributions.

tumkam sogliank dev borem korum !

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

[QUOTE=equality;8680395]I am suprised to see the kind of posts on this link -
throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.]


I agree with much of your post (I have also made the same protests) but are you not also guilty of generalization? for example the above quote and your later: 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics'.
When you praise the Portuguese it is to be remembered that 'Goa' existed long before the Portuguese came to invade and exploit another country (as did the British, French, Dutch, Spanish etc intending to carve up the world for themselves).
The Portuguese burned irreplaceable Hindu libraries and destroyed temples.
However as I have said I agree with many of the points you have raised.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

If you read Save Goa Poll - you can see that Lewis Betworth is collating all the members stories, in confidence, for the BHI. You should also read the BHI thread so you will understand what members are doing to help themselves. We have had a few meetings with the BHI, and although they are trying to sort out our problems they do not understand the complexities of the property situation and dealing with the Goan Authorities. Members have written to our Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Vaz etc, but nobody seems to be doing anything.

Looking at the situation from your point of view, you say people have purchased as it is cheaper to live in Goa - but they could equally have gone to another country.
We purchased 8 years ago (on a five year x visa, have deeds registered, now under investigation) after holidaying in Goa for 15 years. We purchased as we loved the people, so that we could spend our golden years in the country we loved escaping from the UK winter for health reasons. Our property was purchased primarily so that our children and grandchildren could enjoy the country we love, not for financial gain.

Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
 

Pacheco may have got fake medical certificates: prosecution
6 Jul: IANS. Government doctors may have issued bogus medial certificates to ensure that Mickky Pacheco skipped judicial custody, the prosecution alleged Tuesday. The Public prosecutor has called for the medical certificates to be immediately examined for genuineness and a medical board to be constituted to examine him