Hi old man,

Nothing complicated.

There is everything to stop you "selling on" because you dont have the freehold to sell on. What on earth do these second parties think they are buying ?

The short term leases I have seen are not transferable either, so you cannot directly sell them on .

What is being outlined here is an alternative property exchange , where a piece of paper called a sale agreement is deemed to have some value. If you are a FN it clearly does not in practice, as you cannot register it or enforce it in the case of dispute.

The developers must have chuckle clubs where they sit around saying to each other " I have both the registered freehold and the freehold purchase price in my bank account and on the other side of the equation, mr and mrs jones either have a worthless sales agrement or a short term lease. How long can this imbalance go on?"

douglas

Hi all,

Let us try and say the same thing another way.

As i spent some time in financial services, let us use a FS analogy.

A group of us feel it is in our interest ( and yours of course) to by pass the conventional system of purchasing shares that has been in use for centuries.

We now propose to issue our own certificates, they can be printed on coloured paper and can be made to look really authentic and official, just like real ones.

There is no need to register your purchase with the registrar either
( not only because he will refuse, but its so inconvenient isnt it, all that signing and fingerprinting and fees)

When you want to sell the shares, you just have to convince another individual that its an acceptable way of doing things. Get him to hand over the same amount of money that he would have done via the proper registration system and we will issue you a shiny new certificate in his name.

He will not be able to register it either of course, but he wont know until its too late, we will have the money in our ltd liability account.

What do you mean its a scam and the authorities will eventually not tolerate it. What do you mean its a worthless piece of paper. We are share developers, we have special lawyers who work in our interest and pretend they are working in yours. We have special wording in our agreements to confuse and obscure the real issues, we are masters of the enigma and the ambiguous. We even have latin sounding names. How dare you!

douglas

No.

Just a less corrupt way of working...

It's because of people like you, who have total disregard for the law, that the Government is gunning for long stay foreigners. Thank you! I presume you've paid Capital Gains Tax. You'll be happy when you only a get a 30 day visa.

Hi leavinggoa,

I agree wholeheartedly with your first point, you and i , would probably still be settled in our little backwaters in goa, if this kind of attitude and behaviour did not exist amongst some FNs. Still we are where we are, so lets be factual and objective for the sake of the newbies visiting the site.

The capital gains tax bit i am not sure on though. In the absence of infomation to the contrary, we must presume that maryleigh bought two properties on a tourist visa and subsequently sold one to an unsuspecting FN, via the parallel sale agreement/arrangement system, i outlined yesterday.

The sales do not appear to have been registered, so various offences may have been committed including failure to pay stamp duty. In my view, a non resident FN doesnt have the legal capacity to sign a sales agreement in the first place, so both the agreements for the original purchases and the subesequent sale are probably invalid.

Guess who still holds the freehold and still has most of the money, you've got it THE DEVELOPER ( a reputable one of course)

So maryleigh is now apparently in a similar situation to the situation i outlined with cornishman in an earlier post, there is this capital gain, but its as a result of apparently illegal acts on invalid documents.

" O what tangled webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive"

I am making various assumptions here, as the only thing maryleigh has been back to us with so far, is a strong sense of entitlement. Please correct me if i am wrong regarding any of these assumptions, documents or procedures maryleigh and i will act accordingly.

regards

douglas

Hi Old Man,
Yeah, I agree that this is how things have been done but what happens when tourists then realise that their 5year dream visa is now unobtainable?
You see a lot of people have bought villas and apartments as future retirement homes only to find in due course that they cant retire there.
I also read that the government are thinking of reducing a tourist visa to 3 months instead of 6.
Therefore it dosent really matter how many apartments or new homes that FNs buy as these are only ever going to be expensive temporary holiday shelters.

When the whole visa reality thing filters down to grass roots level, I think then that selling on these "agreement of sale" leases will prove much more difficult.
I was in Goa in February and already there is murmerings and whispers among owners.
Some very nervous purchasers out their at moment. Some who also happen to be very nice people and good friends of mine. All im trying to say is under the circumstances it is not an investment if you buy something that you will never own and run the risk of loosing.

Regards,
Remy

As I know it the Foreign Exchange Management Act of 1999 states that non-residents can't legally buy real estate until they have been resident for 182 days in any one given financial year.

The Chief minister of Goa has launched an investigation in to the people who have not adhered to what the act stipulates and will have property confiscated!

You will have corruption amongst officials that will get you around it but the higher officials wont be happy!

Hi richiec,

You are on the right track, but a few technical but important points for newbies.

You have to be resident for 182 days or more, ie 183 minimum and its in the previous tax year to purchase/register immovable property (for FNs. ) The register is effectively closed at the moment and no x visas, so that point is somewhat academic.

The chief minister raine is reported to have made that comment about confiscation, but the goan govt doesnt have the power to confiscate. RBI does though.

Doubtful if you could bribe a member of the directorate of enforcement (RBI) who are currently investigating, but all things are possible in india. (thats if you are unethical and would offer bribes in the first place that is)

High ranking officials are often corrupt too. (Thats often how they became high ranking officials in the first place) Often the lower echelons buy their jobs from those above, like a reverse pyramid.The higher ranking officials also have more authority and command bigger budgets, hence a bigger potential take.

Good luck with your trip to india, but buyer beware in all things. I would read india mike and this site back to front before you go.

douglas

Yes I am aware of the 182 day rule. I have just mentioned what I heard. I will not be buying in Goa.

Just mentioned the articule I heard...

hi where have all the acron people gone ? . have certain people scared riesevery one off, mind you we cant talk,coz we keep getting the doom and gloom stories.i thought this thread was to share info between acron people. please lets hear how you are doing.

Hi all acronitesl,

Douglas will be away for the weekend so it will be safe to venture out and discuss furniture and tiles again.

But dont forget i will be back on monday!

douglas

Hi,I'm an Acronite,soon not to be...

As I write,my Bank Draft is (fingers crossed) on its way to me !!!!

I'm looking forward to renting a nice cheap flat in '08 for the season.

Hopefully an Acron one in Siolim.....


Regards


Keith

Hi Keith,

Lucky escape mate.



Remy

Just ask them mate...

Keith

Many thanks Remy,but lets get the wonga in the bank before cracking open the champers !!!

Keith