How long before they sus me out on a 180 repeated basis ???

lets have a wager !!

Kind Regards


Keith Rogers:curse:

Hi Keith,
Just a couple of points, Acron have been in business quite a long time and they do seem to have a very satisfied customer base living in their developments, most only spend six months of a year in Goa anyway. So unless you intend actually spending over six months in India are the rules really going to affect you ?
Dr. John Britto (Mr Acron) confirms that you can sell the property even if you do not qualify for the freehold, give him a ring if you have any questions.
Re banks in Goa I've found it best to use the Nationwide B/S as you do not pay when using cash machines abroad

Hi Cornishboy,

Many thanks for your reply and good to hear from you...

Yes,Acron are a very well regarded company,which is why I opted for them as opposed to others.

My issue is with the fact that I probably will never qualify for residency and ergo own my flat,the laws are tightening every day,I was out there in March and talking to long termers,even they were being called for interviews after living there for 10+ years with no hassles !!

Wise sages say to always have a UK address available for visa issues etc...

If I have to,I'll do 180,leave,(hopefully) get a fresh 180 visa and so on.....

The 58 month lease is renewable,it's confirmed in my lease agreement with Acron,so hopefully no problems there.

Also as a tourist,I cant have a local bank account,own a vehicle,get gas from the state network etc etc etc.....

Interesting about Nationwide B/S though..

I'm with HSBC and they can open an Indian parallel account for me into which I can transfer funds from my UK account without charge. Then I can use ATMs that show CIRRUS/MAESTRO symbols again without charge,except that the bank running the ATM may charge me.


Don't get me wrong,It's not all doom and gloom,just a re-adjustment of my aspirations for the future.


Kind Regards



Keith Rogers:curse:

Hi leavinggoa,

Thank you for the confirmation and update.

Id better stop issuing the warnings then, if you are going to join the feeding frenzy!

Best wishes

Hi again cornishboy,

I am intrigued by your last post.

Please explain to us how you intend to sell a property you dont own?

Hi Again Keith,
As I understand it you can legally have a local bank account (useful for paying standing charges etc.) but it cannot be used to transfer money out of India, you can get cash cards cheque book etc.
We find that the Nationwide worked really well as you can withdraw up to £300 a day and its an online account so money can be moved from your saving account to the flexi (current) account at the touch of a button regardless of where you are in the world.

Hi Cornishboy,Douglas M and Leavinggoa,

Yes,I would like to know how Dr Britto can sell your place for you as well ??

I presume he means sell the lease to A.N.Other and remit your original payment,since as of now,we don't have a title deed to sell !!!

Re:ATM'S... Can you use any ATM or specific ones affiliated to Nationwide ??

Douglas : As both my parents and grandparents were born in Smethwick near Birmingham,do they qualify as "Honorary Indians" ???!

Worth a try with HCI maybe (only jesting) !!


Keith Rogers

Hi Douglas,
It really depends how the Lease agreement is set up, the Acron lease states that it will be renewed for further 58 months periods until such time that the lessee becomes eligible to acquire the freehold of the said unit under the applicable law. The lease and renewals can only be varied with written consent of both parties.
Regarding reselling the lease property, Dr Britto has stated that it wouldn't be a problem, again no details, I assume it'll be like the Duke Westminster does; he holds the freehold to his properties and people buy the leases, his are usually 99 years, ours are in 58 month sections (max under India law) but are renewed UNTIL one qualifies for the freehold.
So the "new buyer" will take over the lease.
Not the perfect answer, but thats how I understand it.

Hi Keith,
Re ATM's the nation wide card is also a Visa debit card, so no problem's.
Check out the Nationwide web site for more details.

Hi again cornishboy,

Thank you for your speedy response.

I am familiar with the concept of leases and the selling of the same.

Im not a lawyer, but spent 20 years of my working life in financial services, most of that time was spent considering and evaluating investment proposals of various kinds.

As a result, have an eye for cutting through the smoke and mirrors in any proposal or contract and getting down to what it really says and means ( and doesnt mean)

I havnt seen your agreement and dont wish to get involved in a tit for tat with Acron or John Britto, so ill stick to generalisations and principles.

For any contract (or clause in that contract) to have substance it must contain certain essential elements and concepts.

The first is certainty of meaning, it must not be ambiguous or open to interpretation.

Secondly it must not conflict with statute ( in this case FEMA )

Thirdly in the case of dispute, in addition to meaning, it will be interpreted by reference to both statute and recent case law.

Finally in the case of dispute, it must be disputable, heard and enforceable ie there must be a legal and judicial system that can hear disputes, adjudicate and have the means to enforce the judgement.

Becoming more specific now, without being aimed at any company or individual.

The section that would be particularly important to a brit signing a lease in Goa under the current regime, would be the question of renewal and value.

If you have a clean five year lease thats transferable, the contract obviously permits you to gift it or sell the lease. In a free market, the price would be dependent on both supply and demand and the balance of time left to run. As a ball park figure this would be a maximum of say a 20th of a 99 year lease.

If the contract also contains a renewal clause that is constructed in such away that the five year lease is certain of renewal then you effectively have a perpetual lease. The value of a perpetual lease would be a percentage of the freehold value. After allowing for risk factors such as sale or failure of the company that holds the freehold, potential changes in government policy and so on you could place a value on it at say 70 percent of the freehold.

So lets go back to our hypothetical brit who is considering signing such a contract or already has such a contract and apply the four above principles.

Certainty- the renewal clause must contain words such as guaranteed ,definite, unequevocal and so on, or it may fail the certainty test. In my view, Its not enough to state that its simply available. Furthermore in the case of the sale or failure of the company it should also contain personal guarantees from the directors.

Moving on to statute, FEMA clearly states that the maximum lease available to a foreign national is five years. Any clause in a contract that effectively turns that into a perpetual lease would almost certainly be deemed non applicable by the judge in the case of a dispute, because it defeats the original statutory purpose of containment. Even assuming that the writer of the clause or contract had a sharper legal mind than the guy that wrote the FEMA rules and he hearing judge did accept it, RBI would surely bring in new legislation, on the basis that it infringed the spirit if not the letter of the law.

My knowledge of case law in Goa is non existent so cant comment.

Enforcement- the information i have is that the whole system is log jammed and dysfunctional , so no go there.

So to summarise, there is no way that any lease agreement currently available in Goa can be as desirable or valued at anywhere near the freehold price, which is what i understand many are still asking or think they could obtain.

Hi all,

Just a slight correction to my last post, i missed out a phrase out when editing.

In the Certainty section, please add in you have the right after such as

Hi all,

I hope you're enjoying the sunset in Malaysia Douglas...

It seems we will have to see what response I get from Acron re:number of Lessee's who have converted and number who have successfully extended their leases and how many times.


Thanks for all your help so far everybody


Keith Rogers

Hi Keith,
I've sent e-mails to the India embassy in London both the Visa department and the Press and Information dept. trying to get some "official" explananation as to what their poicily is on "foreign" home ownership and why are they revoking visa's of people who have gone through the proper chanels during the purchase of the freehold of their properties.
I've also asked if they intend giving out a press release if they have changed their policy on foreign home ownership in India.
I note on their website in the Question and answers section that they still say that you can apply for an X visa (one year) to enable you to do the qualifing days to change from leasehold to freehold.
I'm sure Douglas has already been down this route but it's worth trying anyway just to hear what they have to say.
I've had further communication with Dr. John, just waiting for a couple more answers to questions I submitted. One question I did ask a few days ago, was "what if I wanted to change my mind and pull out of the sale" his reply was no problem, Acron would repay my monies minus a charge of (approx £300) for the paper work, no intrest would be paid.
I don't really want to do that as a home in Goa is what I still want, but I am certainly pleased that I am dealing with Acron and not some of these other developers.

Hi Cornishboy,

Good on you mate !!

I think that I will wait and see if there is any news from the official channels before cancelling my flat.

Like you I don't want to but all I would have left would be an expensive flat rental with nothing to show for my investment.

I paid in full as my best mate (a currency trader) told me to do when the rupee was weak at IR88 to the pound.,that saved a few thousand on the price.

Afetr all,when you can rent a flat for £1500 for a whole year,that's worth 23 years of my investment !!

Keep us in the loop mate re:developments



Kind Regards


Keith Rogers

Hi Keith,
Now the smoke is clearing and more facts are emerging I don't think things have changed much for Acron "owners" apart from having to wait for the current government investigation to finish before being able to do the 183 qualifying period for the freehold, which I wouldn't be doing anyway for a few years yet. I think the people who should be concerned are the one's who were advised to set up companies to purchase their property.
Wonder how many of the solicitors and developers will be hit or will they just penalise the buyers?
I think your thoughts on buying or renting might well apply anywhere, why does anyone want to own their own place?
After having further communications with Dr. John I feel quite happy to continue with my purchase / investment as I believe Acron has put in as many safe guards as is possible to protect their buyers from most foreseeable events.
I suppose sunny Spain could always be an option,but they seem to have their fair share of problems as well and they are in the EU.