Hi Karl.

I got a list from Neville at Acron.

Soft/Hard furnishings :- Acron Arcade 283 opp Victor Exocita Hotel,Fort Aguada Road,Candolim. Tel:564 6371/2/3

Boa Casa,Samrat Hotel Building,D.V Road,Panjim.tel:222 5923

Habitat,Parra-Mapusa Road,Parra. Tel:227 8726. mob:9822124013

Khuman Singh-carpenter - mob:98221 49623 (for kitchen units etc)

White goods : CMM Rua de Ourem,Panjim. tel:242 1928

Casa Madhav Opp.Azad Maidan,Panjim. tel:222 8423

My taxi driver says that there are a lot of shops in Mapusa selling white goods and other electrical items.

Also,on the road from Calangute up to Siolim there are several roadside stalls selling sofas etc...

Good Luck

Have a great time


Keith Rogers.

I'm getting a little concerned about the current situation in Goa regarding obtaining the freehold of property there, can anyone put my mind at rest? Have any "foreigners" managed to get a non tourist visa which allows you to spend over 183 days in India in the past two years ?
Has anyone actually obtained the freehold of a property in the past two years?
How if you wish, do you sell a property without owning deeds or freehold, anyone done it lately?
How attractive is a leasehold only property for foreign buyers?
I would feel a lot happier owning the freehold, are my concerns warranted?

Hi cornishboy,

Not good news im afraid, im assuming you are a brit and your not of Indian origin.

In simple terms new applicant foreign nationals cannot presently own a freehold in Goa or register it.

For the background and reasons read my posts, avocado green, leavinggoa on this site, then go to india mike , RBI etc.

The best you can currently hope for is a five year lease. With regard to resale, you obviously cant sell what you dont own.

With regard to resale value, please ask yourself who in their right mind would pay the freehold price for the balance of a five year lease?( even assuming that the lease is transferrable)

It would be much better for all if we stopped referring to these deals and contracts that are being bandied about as sales and called them limited duration leases.

Sorry!

I agree with Douglas, Cornishboy,I'm buying in Villa Maria in Siolim and I am viewing it as a long(ish) term leasehold venture.

In respect of the 6 month visa situation,gain,I'll either have to come back to the UK or go to Nepal as several ex-pats out there have told me they do...

I don't see why you could'nt leave and return in the same tax year though ??

Has anyone tried and are the rules subject to "interpretation" by the authorities out there ???


Keith

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your post, I believe you can also go out to Sri lanka to renew your tourist visa.

You can go out and renew within the tax year, but if your thinking that back to back tourist visas will enable you to complete 183 days and become resident, in my view it wont.

Please see my previous posts for the reasoning behind this statement

Best wishes

Hi Karl guess you must be back from Goa now how are things looking any more news re tiles etc yet. How is everyone else from Villa Maria we`ve more than Chritmas to look forward to this December can`t wait!
Regards Rose

Many thanks for your replies Douglas and Keith, regarding the current freehold position, all looks a very grey area at the moment.

Regarding the "forever" lease, what happens if Acron for any reason stops trading?

Who would hold the lease? What legal position would "owners" then be in?

I think the forth coming elections in Goa will have a big impact on foreign home ownership depending on which party wins.

Hi again cornishboy,

Good questions.

Regarding the forever lease, its limited to 5 years max by FEMA. It is sinking in value every day untill the end of the 5 year term.
( even assuming its transferrable, you need to read the document).

(Im assuming throughout, that Acron is a ltd co and youve all done your homework regarding paid up share value etc. Im not an expert on Goan or Indian law but its based on English law and the answers would go something like this).

At the end of 5years,the developer/ freeholder (Acron in this case) may or may not roll it over at their discretion.

If Acron is viable and and sells the majority of the shares in the Ltd co, the new shareholder/owner / freeholder may or may not roll it over at their discretion.

If Acron stops trading or goes bust ie liabilities exceed assets , the receiver will sell the freehold and distribute the proceeds to the creditors. Lease holders may be respected by the new owners for the balance of their 5 years remaining if their lucky, but highly highly unlikely that they would roll it over.

This is a local issue, but more importantly its also a national issue ,central govt is involved, probably home office and treasury ( the most powerful offices in the land) and it wont go away untill foreign nationals get the message.

I have just received the following Email from Dr Britto of Acron,posting it as an attachment (I hope).

I think Douglas M is right to a degree,but Acron have sold loads of properties since the mid 1980's.

Maybe he has had a bad experience in the past..

My lawyer is happy with the documentaton that Acron sent over for signing.

I don't know the answer,Indian beaurocracy is an art form and has to logic to it from what I have seen so far..


Keith

Hi Keith,

I appreciate your comments, but please do not underweight my capacity for objectivity.

Im a retired investment manager/adviser from UK and would sometimes during the course of my work advise clients on the benefits or otherwise of investing in overseas property.

Don't profess to know it all of course, investment is a big subject and sometimes i get it wrong like everyone else.

Kind regards

Douglas.

I understand your forthright approach !!!

I guess that until the "screening" process by the authorities is clarified (if ever),I will be a leasee for the foreseeable future.

I guess the approach is " i've made my bed etc...."

Personally,I find the attitude rather weird as most of would not be feeding of the Indian state,unlike people coming to Britain!!!

Your comments would be most welcome


Keith

i agree keith i also have a 5 year lease why have the indian gov got a problem with us investing in their contry, i have bought my villa as a holiday home, and hopefully stay for 6 months when i retire. we would not go there if we cuold,nt support our selves.we love goa,all we want to do is enjoy and add to the indian economy by spending our well earned cash, not make it a money making sceme.

Hi Karlq

It is my intention to retire early next year (only 50 though)

If I have to keep rolling the 5 year lease over,then so be it it is IR120 per month.

I guess it depends on the Govt if they decide to kick out any foreign nationals,the effect on the Goan economy would be minimal I feel.

It still defies logic though........

But since when has politics been logical !!!!


Keith

Hi Keith and Karlq,

I also tried the western logic approach and asked myself the question, If im bringing both money and skills to India and im not doing harm, then where is the problem?

That obviously didnt provide me with an answer, any more than others on this site who have asked themselves the same question. So i then put on my economics hat and then added an Indian hat on top and came up with this.

The world is awash with money and credit supplied by central banks. This creates inflation ( textbook definition of inflation is too much money chasing too few goods) in this case too much money chasing too few apartments/villas

India, (unlike Uk and Europe ) is a closed economy with strict controls on the movement of money and people both on the way in and out.

The least form of control can currently be exercised against resident indians and the greatest degree of control can be exerted against foreign nationals through existing legislation such as FEMA and immigration laws. PIOs and NRis are somewhere in the middle of the pack.

So the Indian government can most easily control the importation of inflation by limiting the amount of money coming in from foreign nationals and thus to a certain degree control property price inflation (by preventing them from buying.) ( say a third of the properties were going to be bought by foreign nationals and the rest by residents and nris and pios) and thus partialy prevent property price inflation leaking out into the general economy

If these measures are inadequate, then they will bring in new legislation either local or national to do the job ( watch this space for new and more stringent Goan legislation on property ownership)

For those who havnt lived there, dont underestimate the need for inflation control in India, if the price of rice , onions or kerosene goes up they riot!

The second reason why they are exercising these controls ( and i believe they will maintain an even increase them) is even more difficult for westerners to take on board. They see us as a potential national security problem!

If you look at the history of India it has been invaded many times, most recently by the British under the guise of the East India Company.

They now have Independence and a form of democracy and if we arrive
( and stay) in large numbers,they see us as re- colonisers which is rightfuly resented. To be fair, our attitude is somewhat colonial , as we have personal freedom of movement and also capital at home in Europe we naturaly expect it elsewhere. We must understand the closed economy in India and the reasons for the existence of Fema and immigration control. The indian economy is not yet ready for an open door policy.

Continuing with the national security theory, the difference in our lifestyle is is also a contributory factor, nuclear vesus extended family. Indians dont understand that my wife and i dont expect our children to support us, or care for us in our dotage. If we come to live in India they expect us to bring the kids and 20 aunts and uncles , because thats what they would do.

So were nearly there on the reason why, id just like to add to the mix their fear of terrorism ( they have enogh in kashmir and northern states already), They have seen second generation asians turn against their host countries in usa and europe. They know they havnt got the resource or the money to deal with this kind of situation. Solution , dont let foreigners set up enclaves in the first place.

Finally the terrorism magnet theory, they feel that if they dont have large nos of foreigners concentrated for long periods in one place they wont have a Bali type attack.

So there it is , out of the box thinking from Douglas.

In the future tourism will be tolerated ,any form of long stay or permanent settlements will not.