The Virus

Old Feb 4th 2021, 4:26 pm
  #76  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

https://www.wimco.com/vacation-trave...-and-airports/
This link may be useful for readers of this thread. I haven't come across this Wimco company before. The page is dated only a few days ago, so the information should be credible.
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Feb 4th 2021, 4:29 pm
  #77  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Not terribly impressed, it only covers some islands. If you want up to date info the airlines are now clubbing together to provide this, looking forward to the vaccinated passport i believe, - look at the new british airways service online, covers the world.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Mar 21st 2021, 5:23 pm
  #78  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/r...ribbean-cruise
Here's an interesting online report. The comments are interesting too - mostly dismissive of Royal Caribbean's claims of safety for its passengers. Also interesting is the belief that fake vaxx-passports will be easy to buy online or even print-your-own.

I wonder how the renaissance of the cruise industry will go. Most of the people I speak with in Cayman don't care if cruise passengers never come back. The decision to open the port for them is up to the politicians, of course - and there is an election here next month, after which our 19 representatives will be safe in their cushy jobs for the next four years. They will be extremely vulnerable to persuasion, especially by cruise lines prepared to pay huge sums of money for favourable treatment...
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Mar 21st 2021, 6:20 pm
  #79  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

In sure watertight vaccination paper and online passports will emerge , and quickly. The EU and U.K. by May/June. They are required to open economies.

Here something interesting is about to happen. Grenada and possibly caricom will announce no or reduced quarantine for tourists fully vaccinated in the next few weeks hopefully heralding the return of interest in tourism.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Mar 21st 2021, 8:36 pm
  #80  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

You may be right about watertight papers, but I've never heard of a watertight document of any sort. Passports, Social Security papers, you name it - anything's available on the web for a few bucks!

I don't understand why fully vaccinated tourists should be allowed: they are or can still be carriers, after all. I wouldn't want any of them in my shop (if I had a shop). Reduced quarantine is being mooted here for stopovers - ten days, down from 14. OK for people coming for a couple of months, but that's all. Mind you, some of our hotels are trying to cobble together a "bubble" arrangement, with guests visiting local sites as a solid group. With testing every couple of days. That might work. My son is working in England with a football club, and is tested twice a week. He's going to Norway for a week or so with minimal quarantine, but that's only because he'll be staying with his children and their mothers. And he will still have to Q for ten days when he gets back to England.
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Mar 21st 2021, 9:04 pm
  #81  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

The document can be watertight if its actually a webpage owned by the government. EG to rent a car globally you have to show a driving license. In the UK they are online, so you goto a page online there and give Avis or whatever access to your record for a month, it gives you a code that you quote to avis and their computer checks with the uk govt computer...

The removed quarantine need for the vaccinated is actually a WHO suggestion, so its fully 'authorative' and is really about the push now to return to a new normal. In this normal you are vaccinated or you take the risk personally, just like with flu. If you are vaccinated your response to the bug is like it is to flu. You might get ill but you arent going to die or pose a risk to a countries health service [or no more risk than flu poses.]. The suggestion is some level of testing, but no quarantines at all

The UK have now vaccinated 50% of adults, all by June, and a modified booster is likely in august.
Can you carry the bug and give it to others if vaccinated? This is rapidly proving itself to also be like flu. Testing proves that like flu vaccination this vaccination puts antibodies into your mucus that kills the bug. How effectively isnt known now but it works and studies will prove it properly in time. Meanwhile you only have to look at the UK or Israel to see that vaccination is stopping the bug in its tracks an empirically that means it isnt spreading as much and where it is, its definitely not killing. Of course if you arent vaccinated you pose a bigger risk to others and you are more likely to get it even when herd immunity makes it less likely, but you take that risk not others or the state.

So as we dig ourselves out of this hole, ad countries try to save their cash nothing is 100% safe, but we knew that already, we just didnt like the odds of this bug unvaccinated.

The UK have now vaccinated north of 30 million and will complete the population by June, a modified booster will be supplied in August but that will be a UK only supplement from their new vaccine factory.

The EU is in comparison a basket case trying all sorts of moves that arent working, while their politicians become a laughing stock. They said the Astra Zeneca vaccine was dangerous for older people, then said it wasnt, then said it was only for those over 55??? The result is they have 15 million doses available not in peoples arms...

Last edited by uk_grenada; Mar 21st 2021 at 9:15 pm.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Apr 1st 2021, 4:07 am
  #82  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Grenada, you said in your last post: "Of course if you aren't vaccinated you pose a bigger risk to others..."

If that's the case, then the only people an un-vaccinated person could post a risk to are those who are also un-vaccinated. He would not pose a risk to vaccinated individuals.So if all the non-vaxxies congregate together they might infect each other, but that would serve them right, right? Yet I have read that vaccinated people can still be carriers: is that correct? If so, then shouldn't they be the ones to wear masks, being so dangerous?

I am also reading these days that young children are susceptible to the Covid, after months and months of assurance that they weren't. What do you reckon? What is true and what's not?

Signed: Puzzled of Tunbridge Wells.
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Apr 1st 2021, 8:18 am
  #83  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

The key to the answer is how one infects others. The bug lives in you bloodstream, but got into you via your mouth and nose where it then multiplied giving you a cough then migrated downwards into your lungs where it can do real damage and pass over the air/blood boundary.

If you are vaccinated or have had the bug in the past your body has learned to fight this particular bug and has various defenses prepared in your blood and in your mucus membranes [like your memory, this defense can be forgotten over time.]

So when some newly infected person coughs on you, or a handrail, then your hand holds it and you wipe your eye nose or mouth, you receive some of the bugs which grow or are killed. The question is how effectively and where do they get killed? For sure it cannot progress to the bloodstream and infect you properly, but there is SOLID evidence that it also gets killed in the nose/lungs. The proper scientific evidence is passing rigorous trials as it does, but empirically, where populations are vaccinated we know ALMOST nobody gets infected.

Of course young kids get covid, my neighbours 10 year old in the uk has had it, but almost all kids show no symptoms, they just kill granny when they visit her, so as a pool of infection do need treating. HOWEVER once most of the population are protected its all a less serious problem [herd immunity] because the bug will not be able to infect as easily.

Does that help?
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Apr 1st 2021, 8:21 am
  #84  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

In the uk vast numbers are tested regularly, they know almost all there is to know about the epidimiology of this thing - its also where most research is being conducted.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Apr 1st 2021, 5:17 pm
  #85  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Originally Posted by uk_grenada View Post
The key to the answer is how one infects others. The bug lives in you bloodstream, but got into you via your mouth and nose where it then multiplied giving you a cough then migrated downwards into your lungs where it can do real damage and pass over the air/blood boundary.
Does that help?
Thanks, Grenada. Yes, it does help, up to a point.The problem I have is that I have what I jokingly call "a Galileo complex" - the precise opposite of the Thunberg complex.. I don't believe that the science is settled. The virus CAN do real damage, but to use a saying common here in Cayman, it don't MUST. I'm not anti-vax as such, but I'm not at all sure that it (the vax) won't cause me as much damage as the virus would if I caught it. Or more. The vaccine is still only experimental, and doesn't guarantee full protection against the virus or even against the stuff that's in the vaccine. (Which last, seems to be different in each manufacturer's product. And of course the manufacturers have received immunity from lawsuits in every country; that doesn't fill me with confidence!) I'm always glad to chat with you, but we just have to agree to disagree, for the time being.

I don't quite believe in what they call "the herd immunity", either. Surely that just reduces one's chances of running into somebody who is infected. I wouldn't call that "immunity", if it just lowers the odds of catching it.

The vaccine of choice here is the Pfizer one. What is it in Grenada?
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Apr 1st 2021, 8:43 pm
  #86  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

In Grenada its Astra Zeneca but i had pfizer, uk citizenry - thats what was provided lol...

Yes thats what herd immunity is, basically get vaccinated and protect your family/neighbours. Its how other bugs get beaten back - its why chikungunya and zika are dead.

And yes - we are adult enough to not have to agree on everything, i just fear a bit given the risk/benefit profile but its not mandatory so long as you dont need to do some mainly as yet undefined things.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Apr 15th 2021, 7:12 am
  #87  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

St Kitts and Nevis appear to be making your worst nightmare Gordon - vaccination is to be made properly legally compulsory.
uk_grenada is online now  
Old Apr 15th 2021, 12:41 pm
  #88  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Originally Posted by uk_grenada View Post
St Kitts and Nevis appear to be making your worst nightmare Gordon - vaccination is to be made properly legally compulsory.
Pretty much, yes! Making an experimental drug compulsory is a nightmare, for me, especially when it won't allow us all to dispense with masks and social-distancing. And when it doesn't fully protect us from the disease or any of its future mutations, or even from infecting others. As vaccines go, it's a loser, in my book.

However, the law is the law. I'm not going to put myself in a position where burly coppers hold me down every few months while hitting me with a triple-dose for not conforming! (I've been a rebel before, in Cayman, and it's not a pleasant experience.) I would like to be last in the line, that's all. As you know, we're not politically independent here, so it's Britain that will tell us what to do.

I've read "1984", and I know what lies ahead for us.
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Apr 29th 2021, 3:56 pm
  #89  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,349
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Just a further comment on "the science" and how settled or un-settled it is... I read the other day that pregnant women are now being advised not to take the vaccine because it might adversely affect both them and their foetus. That's pretty scary. And since a woman of child-bearing age might not know she is pregnant, it means that no woman of child-bearing age should take it, just in case. (The thalidomide factor.) I wonder - and I say this with reluctance - how we will know for sure when these experimental vaccines will have given up all their secrets.

Here in Cayman, as elsewhere, there are still some deep discussions going on about whether the vaccines will be made compulsory one day. And even if not, should shops even encourage their employees and customers (and contractors) to become vaccinated. How would that affect their liability insurance if one of those people died of the vaccine? There's a lot to think about!
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old Apr 29th 2021, 5:19 pm
  #90  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,626
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Where have you read this advice regarding pregnancy? I’m afraid that sounds like the real virus of fake news, as the U.K. and us health officials do not agree with that. In fact the serious long covid issues encountered by pregnant younger women are said to strongly encourage vaccination.
uk_grenada is online now  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.