The Virus

Old Apr 29th 2021, 5:26 pm
  #91  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
Jerseygirl's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 87,987
Jerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Originally Posted by uk_grenada
Where have you read this advice regarding pregnancy? I’m afraid that sounds like the real virus of fake news, as the U.K. and us health officials do not agree with that. In fact the serious long covid issues encountered by pregnant younger women are said to strongly encourage vaccination.
True…the UK, US and Canada, to name a few, are recommending pregnant women get the vaccine.
Jerseygirl is offline  
Old Apr 30th 2021, 3:12 am
  #92  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 58
carbolic is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Virus

It was not recommended because most of the trials did not include pregnant women. Same for children.
Real world experiences combined with competing risk factors has seen that advice change in some countries.
In the UAE which mainly uses the Chinese vaccine posters reported that women were often given a pregnancy test before the vaccine.
carbolic is offline  
Old Apr 30th 2021, 6:15 am
  #93  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,774
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

More fake news i'm afraid. The trials deliberately didnt include pregnant women, that wasnt a primary aim, but these were multiple trials of hundreds of thousands of individuals and there was no proof undertaken of non pregnancy, just a declaration. During the trials many became pregnant and all events are recorded even after reporting so in truth after the INITIAL PRE USE TRIALS there had already been hundred of pregnancies and their outcomes recorded. So actually - yes - we do know there are no abnormal outcomes [thats a good term isn it lol.]

You could similarly ask about outcomes for people on specific other medications or ages or sexual preferences, its all there.
uk_grenada is offline  
Old May 20th 2021, 8:47 pm
  #94  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,976
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Well, this thread seems to have ground to a halt, which is a pity. I hope any new reports are posted here. Grenada and I disagree as to which news is fake and which isn't. Neither of us has first-hand information, so our opinions can only be formed by what we read! As his signature says, 64.3% of statistics are made up, and that applies to death-rates advertised by pharmaceutical companies who are not held legally accountable. I think we would both feel more comfortable if the companies could be sued for damages caused by their respective vaccines.

Does anybody have information - "reliable" or not - on the effectiveness of vaccines other than the Big Four (AZ, Pfizer, ModeRNA and the asbestos champions J & J)? Somewhere I read there were 67 varieties on offer, but we don't hear much about them. Any news? (Where they are, who they are - that sort of thing?)
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 1:19 pm
  #95  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,976
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

My son is flying in from England (BA direct flight, mainly for returning residents) in a few days. We will have to quarantine together in my house for 14 days, so this weekend I will notify all the neighbours - and the man who has been culling iguanas in our street with a beebee gun.

There is a fierce debate going on about when and how to open the borders, which have been closed the past 14 months or so. The hotels, restaurants, taxis, gift shops, etc are desperate to open up, naturally enough. Also naturally enough, everybody not dependent on tourism is anxious not to go back to wearing masks and keeping six feet away from everybody else. The hotels are trying to figure out how some kind of "social bubble" might work. Watch this space...
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 1:29 pm
  #96  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,774
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Think about this - if you have vaccinated all who choose to be vaccinaed, a return to normality is inevitable, any talk of a new normal or a permanent change is to ignore human nature.

The UK have clearly stated, the bug will be freely allowed in shortly, and it is an individuals decision how to respond personally, but normal business/life is resuming.

So dont concern yourself too much about new systems or processes, these are a smoke screen, look at the final death rates of populations as they complete vaccinations so you are comparing apples with apples, and you will see that countries that ignored the bug actually fared the same as the most draconian locked down countries, immunity is all that impacts things. The bug is highly opportunistic and apart from putting yourself in a plastic bag for a few years, its going to eventually find a way, even after you exit your plastic bag.

Herd immunity is a thing, its just how it is achieved, and once it exists the bug is curtailed, but never removed so those without immunity are always at risk.
uk_grenada is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 1:41 pm
  #97  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,774
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Gordon - you asked about effectiveness of vaccines. Reliable knowledge is only from large scale gathering of evidence, even for the common contenders, this proved knowledge is still being built. You said i have to operate on news, not entirely true, i worked with the statisticians in the NHS for a while, their evidence is public domain always, and very trustworthy, they have no axe to grind apart from being proved to be honest. As always - nothing is 100%

Pfizer - 2 weeks after 2nd dose is 96% successful at preventing infection and around 80% effective at preventing one from infecting someone else [ie, you are sneezed on, the bug is breathed in, but died in the nose before you sneezed it back, it could not infect the individual but that would be later anyway. You can still pick it up from a door handle and shake hands with someone else but thats true of any bug.

AZ - the numbers arent properly in, a few weeks from now, but its looking like almost as good.

Janssen - early days - not looking as good

But these are based on total 60 million doses given, and 10 milion test results a week, its pretty solid.
uk_grenada is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 2:44 pm
  #98  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,976
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

Grenada... Interesting comments from you,of course, and the statistics may well all be true.

By the way, I wonder if you have ever thought that it might be time to change your signature below every one of your comments. I for one am rather inclined to take it seriously!

Smile...
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 3:26 pm
  #99  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Cayman Islands
Posts: 4,976
Gordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond reputeGordon Barlow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/v...edible-natural
This article is of general interest. I don't know how valid the report is, but it claims to debunk the original news that the Virus began with live bats sold in Wuhan's "wet market". "It claims to..." Were the early reports correct, or were they lies? Time will tell, I guess. If they were lies, the question arises: What other lies have "They" (TPTB) told us along the way?
Gordon Barlow is offline  
Old May 29th 2021, 3:35 pm
  #100  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,774
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

We may never know for sure, my money is on an accident in that lab in wuhan, it might just have been deliberate possibly, but i doubt it.

There is hard evidence from the chinese themselves that multiple bat based coronavirus's was being used by that lab, and i have heard what sounds credible info from US and UK scientists saying that a transmission in nature seems unlkely. Clearly the chinese will obfuscate at all times, and cannot take blame - i would suspect that if the leadership there know an accident happened, people will have been executed [rightly so] or are in fear of their lives. BUT if there is knowledge, it will eventually escape but will we/anyone believe it?

Imagine it if they did take responsibility? What would the world demand of china as reparations or would someone start a war? Maybe the safest course is for them to blame whoever made the mistake or caused the escape deliberately, show trial followed by??? But - not going to happen.
uk_grenada is offline  
Old May 31st 2021, 12:34 am
  #101  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
scrubbedexpat099 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Virus

I really do not see the Chinese taking any responsibility, they have the capability of making sure any evidence has disappeared and enough friends to run cover for them.
scrubbedexpat099 is offline  
Old May 31st 2021, 3:25 am
  #102  
`
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,595
BEVS has disabled reputation
Default Re: The Virus

Originally Posted by uk_grenada
, and i have heard what sounds credible info from US and UK scientists saying that a transmission in nature seems unlkely. .
Could you provide links to the papers on this please. I would be interested to read.

Meanwhile here is something very relevant from the Lancet - Infectious diseases - SARS-Cov2

Also here is an extract of another published article which further explains. SARS itself has been studied by several countries, especially those countries where SARS and MERS have been a past issue.

In 2002–03, civets sold for meat in local markets of China's Yunnan province carried the SARS virus from horseshoe bats to humans. The resulting viral outbreak killed 774 people in 2002–2003.
Subsequent studies found that SARS-CoV originated from bats and interspecies transmission to humans took place via an intermediate host: Himalayan palm civets (Paguma larvata) or raccoon dogs (Nyctereutes procyonoides).
It is worth reading both articles .
BEVS is offline  
Old May 31st 2021, 4:02 pm
  #103  
I still dont believe it..
 
Joined: Oct 2013
Location: 12 degrees north
Posts: 2,774
uk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond reputeuk_grenada has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Virus

We can play this form of tennis forever, but firstly, one should always look at who is talking and their background. It seems that the team from WHO to china was not unbiased, and it is also clear from the WHO themselves that they are walking a political tight rope. My info came partially from the LBC radio station in London who interviewed a number of UK and US scientists, including one who was in China for the WHO and who was critical of the report blaming bats in the wild. We in truth dont know, but we in truth KNOW that thre are powerful political forces attempting to control the narrative.

The national geographic article is probably balanced correctly, it might well be via a 3rd species, but it points out the whole WHO in China mission was quite flawed so its findings could be incorrect in weighting. The FACT that the chinese are not openly welcoming investigation by a global unbiased organisation does not help their cause IMHO, unless there is something to hide. Of course the chinese have had plenty of time to hide things, so why still not be open?'Lucey believes the lab leak theory is plausible, though less likely than zoonotic transmission, given the lack of evidence. He points out that there was no forensic investigation of the labs in Wuhan, and he questions why the WHO authorized the team to investigate the lab at all without the mandate to conduct such an investigation or team members with the subject-matter expertise to carry it out.

“There’s not really any way to prove or disprove the lab leak theory based on what’s been presented in this report,” Rasmussen agrees, noting that to put the matter to rest there would need to be a forensic audit of lab records to look for the ancestral virus to SARS-COV-2. “But my opinion is that the lab leak theory, while not impossible, is less likely to be the explanation.”'

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/wh...udy-was-biased

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...four-scenarios

https://www.wsj.com/articles/wuhan-l...ic-11621871125


Im sorry lso, but none of your links provide more than speculation or advance possible theories. There is no answer until a forensic investigation is allowed and occurs.

Last edited by uk_grenada; May 31st 2021 at 4:09 pm.
uk_grenada is offline  
Old Jun 1st 2021, 12:52 am
  #104  
`
 
BEVS's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,595
BEVS has disabled reputation
Default Re: The Virus

Originally Posted by uk_grenada
one should always look at who is talking and their background.
The inference being I do not which is not correct. I think you may have missed the point that I was making , in that research and investigations had and has already been conducted as to the source & transmission of SARS & MERS across species. Not speculation at all. It was actual research from well before this latest outbreak in humans.

I am not sure of your links. They appear to not be published papers but rather opinion piece articles <------ which is fine I suppose.

Originally Posted by uk grenada
There is no answer until a forensic investigation is allowed and occurs.
I agree that further investigations are now needed given the renewed rumours re a lab leak. However , in so doing , it should not be forgotten or sidelined that SARS has been transmitted from animal to people in the past. It is that this valid work will be somehow negated as of no consequence in the rush and clamour to somehow prove a lab leak, because of current political posturing , that is of concern.

The US and by default the puppy dog UK would not be unbiased . These folks want it to be a lab leak rather than what has caused SARS and MERS outbreaks in the past which is transmission of animals to humans. I am reminded of the 'weapons of mass destruction' propaganda that everyone was so quick to want to believe.

This will be unpopular with the current trend to blame for gain. The best people to investigate a possible lab leak, and lets remember SARS/MERS is researched in more than one facility, is the surrounding Asian countries themselves. After that it has to be scientists with no political bias nor that could be lent on . ATM it certainly is not the UK or the US because of the misinformation and accusations that have been peddled. However, China is its own self and whilst there is possibility of the SARS source being further scientifically investigated which would be helpful ; it is not about to bow to political pressure from those that seek to , in its eyes, discredit. In that , the US and UK shot themselves in the foot.

Given past outbreaks and that it is known that SARS is transmissible through species + the cultural preference in Asia for wet markets which would be a super spreader site , my leaning is that another outbreak was inevitable - & in fact there were warnings oft this years ago . The lab is on the outskirts of Wuhan which is a huge sprawling city. The market is central. Rumour and misinformation is trying to allude that the virus was 'manufactured' & 'escaped' . However it has been clearly stated this is not the case. The genome sequence links to bats.

For me , dealing with , understanding , mitigating & evolving effective treatment of SARS for both humans and animals is important. For others out there, that doesn't seem to be the focus at all. There again they don't live close to regions where SARS and MERS have been a problem in the past.


ps - no idea what lso stands for.



Last edited by BEVS; Jun 1st 2021 at 12:55 am.
BEVS is offline  
Old Jun 1st 2021, 1:02 am
  #105  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
scrubbedexpat099 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: The Virus

https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-...-box-at-wuhan/

The best article I know of about this subject, but quite a long read.

​​​​​​
This was surprising because both the SARS1 and MERS viruses had left copious traces in the environment. The intermediary host species of SARS1 was identified within four months of the epidemic’s outbreak, and the host of MERS within nine months. Yet some 15 months after the SARS2 pandemic began, and after a presumably intensive search, Chinese researchers had failed to find either the original bat population, or the intermediate species to which SARS2 might have jumped, or any serological evidence that any Chinese population, including that of Wuhan, had ever been exposed to the virus prior to December 2019. Natural emergence remained a conjecture which, however plausible to begin with, had gained not a shred of supporting evidence in over a year.
scrubbedexpat099 is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.