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When are doubts more than that?!

When are doubts more than that?!

Old Oct 1st 2013, 5:25 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
I'm not trying to get at anything, just pointing out that you had referred to pay as being an issue. From what others have posted, it does seem that pay would be a plus point to moving.

I'm not even in Canada, but am drawn to posts where the person is conflicted because there can be significant issues with emigrating that tend to be glossed over in the excitement of anticipating a move, and part of me wants to advise caution even though, once you've got this far, you probably have to at least try it.

Despite the total disillusionment your husband is currently feeling, it would be sensible to leave the door open to a return if all is not as you expect.
Sorry on the defensive!. It is a fact that pay would be better. For me the dilemma lies in, what is really important in a persons life? For me, no question, my life is made better by my family and friends. But of course, men are different. A good majority of his life is spent in work- he needs to feel job satisfaction. That he is doing a good job. He doesn't right now. It will take a long time for the downward spiral of the nhs to right itself. I'm sure it will somehow.
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Tirytory
Sorry on the defensive!. It is a fact that pay would be better. For me the dilemma lies in, what is really important in a persons life? For me, no question, my life is made better by my family and friends. But of course, men are different. A good majority of his life is spent in work- he needs to feel job satisfaction. That he is doing a good job. He doesn't right now. It will take a long time for the downward spiral of the nhs to right itself. I'm sure it will somehow.
Is it the suffocating bureaucracy, the endless forms he has to waste time filling out/in, too many patients so not enough time with them, not enough administrative support, increasing privatization, too much needless busy work, too much emphasis on patients' rights, too much administrative interference (he's a professional, let him do his job), a general lack of community respect, lack of compensation, livings standards declining, etc. By any chance?
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 5:41 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Tirytory
Don't assume to know anything about us, you might mix with people who get caught up in that, you might be that way inclined yourself- who knows. If he wanted to earn more in the UK that's perfectly possible, he just doesn't want to and neither is he working without a license in Canada, the supervision refers to some reports once a week, or maybe a month that need to be filed with the CPSO. It is supervision in the loosest sense of the word. We have actually talked to other doctors in Ontario, done some research etc you know!

His earning potential won't be the same as the other doctors, because there will be a lot of on the job knowledge to be gained. Clearly we're already aware of this!
I'm not assuming too much only picking up from what you've posted & the reasons that you want to emigrate, the whys & wherefores of what will life be like in Canada, what about the kids rugby, friends here compared to the UK etc

What I do know is that the average immigrant usually cannot go to a new country at the same job/work pay & benefits level as the one they left behind & that there is some hard work & price to pay to get back to that level.

Like any professional or skilled person coming to Canada they have to pay their dues.

In your husbands situation of course he wont make $350k off the bat & the physician he is being supervised by is the one responsible, signing off on each patient & gets to bill OHIP. The same supervisor is paying ALL the overhead and would if they are smart (which most are) deduct that amount from the billing amount before sharing a percentage of what will be paid to the intern unlicensed GP.

On the basis the supervising physician bills OHIP the standard consultation fee of $77.20 minus the overhead of $17.20 leaves $60 to be shared between the supervisor & the unlicensed GP. Being a GP is not a straight guaranteed salary job - one has to put the hours in to make hay while the sun shines.

Easy numbers to work out.... what do you think the % split is or what the supervising physician will pay the intern for each patient?

Understood its not about the money as you've mentioned several times over the threads.

A year from now it'll all be a blur, the whole family will have settled in nicely, your husband will be happy in his work ...

Last edited by not2old; Oct 1st 2013 at 5:43 pm.
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 5:50 pm
  #94  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by not2old
I'm not assuming too much only picking up from what you've posted & the reasons that you want to emigrate, the whys & wherefores of what will life be like in Canada, what about the kids rugby, friends here compared to the UK etc

What I do know is that the average immigrant usually cannot go to a new country at the same job/work pay & benefits level as the one they left behind & that there is some hard work & price to pay to get back to that level.

Like any professional or skilled person coming to Canada they have to pay their dues.

In your husbands situation of course he wont make $350k off the bat & the physician he is being supervised by is the one responsible, signing off on each patient & gets to bill OHIP. The same supervisor is paying ALL the overhead and would if they are smart (which most are) deduct that amount from the billing amount before sharing a percentage of what will be paid to the intern unlicensed GP.

On the basis the supervising physician bills OHIP the standard consultation fee of $77.20 minus the overhead of $17.20 leaves $60 to be shared between the supervisor & the unlicensed GP. Being a GP is not a straight guaranteed salary job - one has to put the hours in to make hay while the sun shines.

Easy numbers to work out.... what do you think the % split is or what the supervising physician will pay the intern for each patient?

Understood its not about the money as you've mentioned several times over the threads.

A year from now it'll all be a blur, the whole family will have settled in nicely, your husband will be happy in his work ...
It would be easier if we were working from the same correct information Not2old..... He will have an OHIP number and bill himself. The money will be paid directly into his bank account which we have set up as OHIP requires. He will pay overheads at the agreed sum to the Family Physician who owns the building. This was a standard sum. The rest is his, to incorporate as he pleases. Any private work is his alone. He's not an intern. His training/work is recognised by Ontario. He has a license.
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 5:55 pm
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Tirytory
It would be easier if we were working from the same correct information Not2old..... He will have an OHIP number and bill himself. The money will be paid directly into his bank account which we have set up as OHIP requires. He will pay overheads at the agreed sum to the Family Physician who owns the building. This was a standard sum. The rest is his, to incorporate as he pleases. Any private work is his alone. He's not an intern. His training/work is recognised by Ontario. He has a license.


isn't it good when all the information comes out crystal clear ... its like pulling teeth at times
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:05 pm
  #96  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by not2old
how many hours per week now on average is he working in practice?

In Canada you don't work, you don't get paid & remember the liability insurance - because folks over this part of the world will likely either sue you or discredit you the first chance they get.

So, I reckon the first year or two as an unlicensed supervised doctor he'll make $70K gross. After he gets his license & spends all kinds of money setting up the first year after that he'd be lucky to make $100k with luck $150K

After that by year 4/5 the pressure is on to get the $350k/yr minimum
According to this: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/p...mpensation.pdf

New graduates and physicians without an Ontario fee-for-service billing history are eligible for a guaranteed first year annual baseline income of $174,177.19 inclusive of benefits

Once a physician has officially commenced the Blended Salary Model, he/she will be eligible to receive all the benefits under the Blended Salary Model, including the Per Patient Rostering Fee (Q200), the New Patient Fee (Q013), the New Graduate-New Patient Fee (Q033), the Unattached Patient Fee (Q023), and the New Patient Fee FOBT Positive/Colorectal Cancer Increased Risk (Q043A).

Physicians participating in the Income Stabilization Program will also have the ability to bill the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) for some services. Conditional on the physician(s) fulfilling their required hours of service to the team, there will be no limit on fee-for-service billings for services provided at premises outside the Family Health Team to non-enrolled patients

Physicians may bill OHIP for services specific to emergency room unscheduled visits and obstetrical deliveries, and receive 100% of the fee-for-service value for their enrolled and non-enrolled patients.

I think the OP's husband will earn enough to keep them going.

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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:14 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Siouxie
According to this: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/p...mpensation.pdf

New graduates and physicians without an Ontario fee-for-service billing history are eligible for a guaranteed first year annual baseline income of $174,177.19 inclusive of benefits

Physicians may bill OHIP for services specific to emergency room unscheduled visits and obstetrical deliveries, and receive 100% of the fee-for-service value for their enrolled and non-enrolled patients.

I think the OP's husband will earn enough to keep them going.

sweet

According to the OP her husband can bill OHIP directly post #94

Its good to know where our taxes go, how much the doctor bills OHIP for each consultation (linked in one of my previous posts), the question is... do Ontario patients get the best value for the tax money they pay or is the NHS better value for money?

My experience is that we do not get good value for our tax dollar & no, I cannot compare it to the UK. Maybe others can comment
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:17 pm
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!



"Should I stay or should I go" ... to Canada.

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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:20 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Oink
Is it the suffocating bureaucracy, the endless forms he has to waste time filling out/in, too many patients so not enough time with them, not enough administrative support, increasing privatization, too much needless busy work, too much emphasis on patients' rights, too much administrative interference (he's a professional, let him do his job), a general lack of community respect, lack of compensation, livings standards declining, etc. By any chance?
Public sector worker perchance?!
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:22 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by not2old
sweet

According to the OP her husband can bill OHIP directly post #94

Its good to know where our taxes go, how much the doctor bills OHIP for each consultation (linked in one of my previous posts), the question is... do Ontario patients get the best value for the tax money they pay or is the NHS better value for money?

My experience is that we do not get good value for our tax dollar & no, I cannot compare it to the UK. Maybe others can comment
There are several different models for payment within Ontario. All deeply confusing! The NHS is a whole different topic!
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:23 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Siouxie


"Should I stay or should I go" ... to Canada.

Is it too late now for the OP to change her mind & not come?

We know from the many pages of this thread the OP has posted her house is exchanging hands, packers are coming in, job is secured, hubby has a license (post 94) an OHIP number for billing & that they'll be here in the New Year.

Last edited by not2old; Oct 1st 2013 at 6:27 pm.
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:24 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Siouxie


"Should I stay or should I go" ... to Canada.

If i go there will be trouble, if I stay there will be double.

Does anyone get song lyrics running through their head most of the time?!
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:27 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Tirytory
Does anyone get song lyrics running through their head most of the time?!
All day, today, Lana Del Rey.
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:31 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by dbd33
All day, today, Lana Del Rey.
come & get it ... Badfinger or was that The Beatles?

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.n...256DE5002F5F9E
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Old Oct 1st 2013, 6:32 pm
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Default Re: When are doubts more than that?!

Originally Posted by Tirytory
Public sector worker perchance?!
Not really, but I've been listening to that hackneyed old chesnut for the last 50 years. With a few minor modifications you could be in any public sector.
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