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Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:37 am
  #61  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Well I think OrangeMango's argument in this case is that the rules are overzealous, unfair and unnecessary.
He and I will have to respectfully disagree on that one. I feel the opposite about the UK government's lifting of quarantine for certain countries, I wish they'd implement it for all.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
As a Canadian citizen currently overseas, all they can do for now though is avoid travelling in the short-term and make their opinions known democratically at the next election.
Agreed.


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Old Jul 13th 2020, 9:41 am
  #62  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by christmasoompa View Post
He and I will have to respectfully disagree on that one. I feel the opposite about the UK government's lifting of quarantine for certain countries, I wish they'd implement it for all.
Well Canada has a bit of a position of luxury here. The current travel restrictions end on 21/07 and the quarantine rule ends on 31/08 so they can carefully watch how things go in Europe over the next 6 weeks or so and then make a decision from there as to whether to extend those measures further.

You walk a tightrope when you do that though. International routes to Canada are now picking up again and any extension of the emergency regulations is going to cost the Canadian economy in the long run.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 11:51 am
  #63  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Well Canada has a bit of a position of luxury here. The current travel restrictions end on 21/07 and the quarantine rule ends on 31/08 so they can carefully watch how things go in Europe over the next 6 weeks or so and then make a decision from there as to whether to extend those measures further.

You walk a tightrope when you do that though. International routes to Canada are now picking up again and any extension of the emergency regulations is going to cost the Canadian economy in the long run.
I see your point. However there are many things that still puzzle me. For instance there was a time when Air Canada suspended all flights to the US, for obvious reasons, while they still had regular flights to London, Paris and Frankfurt. Also, the UK manages to accept quarantine free travellers from Canada whilst baring the US from entry, at the same time Brexit-UK wants a trade deal with the US at some point. Thus that pussyfooting around and waling on a tightrope regarding the Trudeau government dealing with Trump is a bit strange to understand in comparison to the Brexit-UK and Trump-USA style political relationship.

Also if Air Canada is increasing some flights to Europe the CBSA would have to check up on more and more returning travellers. They probably can't walk from door to door and check up on everybody within that 14 day timeframe on a daily basis. It's an enormous amount of legwork to do.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 11:56 am
  #64  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I see your point. However there are many things that still puzzle me. For instance there was a time when Air Canada suspended all flights to the US, for obvious reasons, while they still had regular flights to London, Paris and Frankfurt. Also, the UK manages to accept quarantine free travellers from Canada whilst baring the US from entry, at the same time Brexit-UK wants a trade deal with the US at some point. Thus that pussyfooting around and waling on a tightrope regarding the Trudeau government dealing with Trump is a bit strange to understand in comparison to the Brexit-UK and Trump-USA style political relationship.

Also if Air Canada is increasing some flights to Europe the CBSA would have to check up on more and more returning travellers. They probably can't walk from door to door and check up on everybody within that 14 day timeframe on a daily basis. It's an enormous amount of legwork to do.
I don't know what sources of information you've been following but the UK has not dropped quarantine restrictions on arrivals from Canada. Some parts of the EU have but Britain hasn't. Britain has only quarantine whitelisted non-EU countries that have a lower infection than itself and rates of infection in Canada and the UK are roughly the same if not slightly worse at the Canadian end.

Britain is in a much stronger position when it comes to the US than Canada. The UK simply doesn't rely on America in the same way that Canada does and the so-called 'special relationship' is mostly one of mutual tolerance when it comes to history, political and defence matters.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 12:14 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I don't know what sources of information you've been following but the UK has not dropped quarantine restrictions on arrivals from Canada. Some parts of the EU have but Britain hasn't. Britain has only quarantine whitelisted non-EU countries that have a lower infection than itself and rates of infection in Canada and the UK are roughly the same if not slightly worse at the Canadian end.

Britain is in a much stronger position when it comes to the US than Canada. The UK simply doesn't rely on America in the same way that Canada does and the so-called 'special relationship' is mostly one of mutual tolerance when it comes to history, political and defence matters.
This. If I travel to UK to see family, I'd have to quarantine for 14 days on arrival and 14 days on return so that's not feasible. If they UK quarantine is dropped I would only travel in an emergency, accepting the need to quarantine on my return.

To the OP, If you are not prepared to follow the quarantine rules, then, respectfully, don't travel here. Whether thats because you can't or don't want to is irrelevant. The rules are put in place for a reason. I don't know where you are going but I can tell you there is great sensitivity to people travelling from aboard and not quarantining. That you would be unpopular is a bit of an understatement....
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:22 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Atlantic Xpat View Post
To the OP, If you are not prepared to follow the quarantine rules, then, respectfully, don't travel here. Whether thats because you can't or don't want to is irrelevant. The rules are put in place for a reason. I don't know where you are going but I can tell you there is great sensitivity to people travelling from aboard and not quarantining. That you would be unpopular is a bit of an understatement....
I am afraid, I have to be back by September. Lot's of things I would have to do. Even my Ontario driver's license is about to expire at some point. However there are probably ways to work around that and renew that online.

Lot's of things are unpopular in the end. It's often and even more and more so down to a fight for personal survival. I have to live with the legal risk and the opinions like yours. However I don't think that the CBSA is going to stake out my place of quarantine for 24 hours a day like in a police movie. I might organize an AirBnB close to any shop which has 24 hours opening times, and at least sneak out at night to stock up on food.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Jul 13th 2020 at 1:27 pm.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:27 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
Lot's of things are unpopular in the end. It's often and even more and more so down to a fight for personal survival. I have to live with the risk and opinions like yours. However I don't think that the CBSA is going to stake out my place of quarantine for 24 hours a day like in a police movie. I might organize an AirBnB close to any shop which has 24 hours opening times, and at least sneak out at night to stock up on food.
I mean if you're going to do stuff like that then at least keep quiet about it. One idiot recently got into trouble in New Zealand for not only leaving a quarantine facility for a shopping trip but also posting selfies of himself doing it.

I'm personally in partial agreement with you. IMHO, current Canadian quarantine measures are a little OTT and in particular the way they have been applied at a blanket level coupled with the infamous and largely pointless systems of Canadian bureaucracy really doesn't help. Nobody on here is going to recommend or support you if you suggest doing things like that though.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:32 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am afraid, I have to be back by September. Lot's of things I would have to do. Even my Ontario driver's license is about to expire at some point. However there are probably ways to work around that and renew that online.

Lot's of things are unpopular in the end. It's often and even more and more so down to a fight for personal survival. I have to live with the risk and opinions like yours. However I don't think that the CBSA is going to stake out my place of quarantine for 24 hours a day like in a police movie. I might organize an AirBnB close to any shop which has 24 hours opening times, and at least sneak out at night to stock up on food.
FFS. Again. Rent any holiday accommodation within driving distance of a grocery store that delivers. That's all you have to do to in order do this legally, to protect yourself, to protect others. It's not bloody hard, you just don't appear to want to do it. It seems to me that for you, it's all about 'I don't agree with the regulations so I'm not following them'. If you put as much time and effort into organising a flight and accommodation as you do whinging about having to quarantine for 2 weeks, you'd have already been there, done your quarantine time and be getting on with your life!
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:38 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
FFS. Again. Rent any holiday accommodation within driving distance of a grocery store that delivers. That's all you have to do to in order do this legally, to protect yourself, to protect others. It's not bloody hard, you just don't appear to want to do it. It seems to me that for you, it's all about 'I don't agree with the regulations so I'm not following them'. If you put as much effort into organising a flight and accommodation as you do whinging about having to quarantine for 2 weeks, you'd have already been there, done your quarantine time and be getting on with your life!
I don't think that part comes into it to be fair. Canada's current approach seems to be 'outside world = unclean'. That's why this discussions and likely millions of others like it are taking place across the world every day atm. Sturgeon has made the comment recently that people in Scotland should adapt as easily to wearing a face mask as they did to wearing a seat-belt but the difference between a face-mask or quarantine and a seat-belt is that the latter is designed mainly to protect you.

Asking most westerners to make huge sacrifices, both personal and financial, simply for the benefit of perfect strangers and society at large is at odds with our normal social behaviours and belief systems.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:49 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
That's not as clear as you think. I imagine that one of the most probable times and places to acquire the virus is during a transatlantic flight. A test upon landing would be about 5 days too soon.
During the flight and the associated stuff getting to and at the airport too.

The idea that passengers could choose to pay for a test rather than go into isolation sounds a bit of an admin nightmare. Not to mention directing health resources to people who went travelling, although some may have had good reason.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
During the flight and the associated stuff getting to and at the airport too.

The idea that passengers could choose to pay for a test rather than go into isolation sounds a bit of an admin nightmare. Not to mention directing health resources to people who went travelling, although some may have had good reason.
Quite a few countries in Europe and the Middle East are now doing this and South Korea have a similar system.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 1:52 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I mean if you're going to do stuff like that then at least keep quiet about it. One idiot recently got into trouble in New Zealand for not only leaving a quarantine facility for a shopping trip but also posting selfies of himself doing it.

I'm personally in partial agreement with you. IMHO, current Canadian quarantine measures are a little OTT and in particular the way they have been applied at a blanket level coupled with the infamous and largely pointless systems of Canadian bureaucracy really doesn't help. Nobody on here is going to recommend or support you if you suggest doing things like that though.
I am most certainly not going to post anything online somewhere, or renew the driver's license before these 14 days are up.

Regarding Corona and Covid 19, there are two things and one possible third thing which are with utter certainty always going to be controversial

Wearing masks, wherever there are others around, seems to be rather effective, unpleasant still, but effective. I am surprised that Canada has reacted this slow towards wearing them.

The other one is the quarantine, especially arriving from countries with less infections, stubbornly refusing testing ( Iceland can do it for roughly 70 Euros ) and the reaction "everybody, has to, regardless" like a country exercising a military conscription system and those who served expecting everybody else to do service just because they did, not even allowing any discussion......

And the possibly third issue would be mandatory vaccination, - if there ever is a vaccine found. I'd be massively in favour of mandatory vaccination, however I am aware that there are also people out there who decline any sort of vaccine....
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 3:45 pm
  #73  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
I am afraid, I have to be back by September. Lot's of things I would have to do. Even my Ontario driver's license is about to expire at some point. However there are probably ways to work around that and renew that online.

Lot's of things are unpopular in the end. It's often and even more and more so down to a fight for personal survival. I have to live with the legal risk and the opinions like yours. However I don't think that the CBSA is going to stake out my place of quarantine for 24 hours a day like in a police movie. I might organize an AirBnB close to any shop which has 24 hours opening times, and at least sneak out at night to stock up on food.

Fight for personal survival??? That is exactly what I would be doing if you were to come to Canada if you had exposed yourself to Covid19 and then deliberately avoided isolating yourself and I or a family member caught it from you.. do you not get this or something? Is your life and choices more important than potentially hundreds of others??? If that happened I would make bloody sure that everyone knew about it.. I would shout it from the rooftops... and contact our friendly CBSA Officer and the other Officials that come to this forum... and yes, CBSA as well as the local police CAN come to your place of quarantine and check you are there... and fine you if you are not..

Your inability to empathise with the concerns of others, your innate belief that your wishes are more important than the laws of Canada are unbelievable.

If you are not prepared to follow the quarantine rules, then don't travel here. Whether thats because you can't or don't want to is irrelevant. The rules are put in place for a reason. Don't be selfish.

Last edited by Siouxie; Jul 13th 2020 at 3:55 pm.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 3:49 pm
  #74  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Quite a few countries in Europe and the Middle East are now doing this and South Korea have a similar system.
If they don't have much of an issue - not that many cases, not many active cases etc - then it's not difficult. For countries adding cases and deaths daily it's probably quite different.

I see Iceland advises people to be 'careful' for 5 days (some of it the same as isolating) and then a second test is needed. This will be the 5 day thing Novo referred to.
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Old Jul 13th 2020, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
Fight for personal survival??? That is exactly what I would be doing if you were to come to Canada if you had exposed yourself to Covid19 and then deliberately avoided isolating yourself and I or a family member caught it from you.. do you not get this or something? Is your life and choices more important than potentially hundreds of others??? If that happened I would make bloody sure that everyone knew about it.. I would shout it from the rooftops... and contact our friendly CBSA Officer and the other Officials that come to this forum... and yes, local police CAN come to your place of quarantine and check you are there... and fine you if you are not..

Your inability to empathise with the concerns of others, your innate belief that your wishes are more important than the laws of Canada are unbelievable.

If you are not prepared to follow the quarantine rules, then don't travel here. Whether thats because you can't or don't want to is irrelevant. The rules are put in place for a reason. Don't be selfish.
I was expecting your posting, and no, we don't really agree neither in the content, nor in the tone of language. Luckily so far nothing has happened yet from a legal perspective. However I am afraid, that this quarantine regulation from countries with way lower infections can't go on forever not even for Canada. And before you keep going on with your opinion, pls be assured that some people will face financial problems and I myself happen to be one of them. Using words like "don't travel" or "don't be selfish" or other remarks which I've read here won't help much, if there are no alternatives. Or are you happy to support me financially for 14 days? In a big house with a big garden, as some other user suggested?

Maybe things change in September. I am hoping for that. What still surprises me is that AC is increasing flights to Europe from various Canadian airports by the month, but for what precise reason? Only Canadian citizens and PR holders would be eligible to fly and return, as far as I am aware? More flights would mean more citizens returning, and more CBSA officers checking up or some other surveillance mechanism?

Also pls be reminded, it's not the "New Normal" but the "New Un-normal", and no, we're not "in this together" everybody is more "in this in a totally different situation". This "new normal" and "in this together" attitude is beginning to offend me, as it doesn't depict the individual challenges and the real reality behind it.

And yes, the question still stands, why can't Canada offer testing at the airport while other countries clearly can, and are clearly effective about it? Or offer "air bridges"? All a bit too much to ask? And pls don't start with "one could theoretically...." But when it comes to legalizing Cannabis, the impact on the health, or on whole OHIP etc... is "very minimal" right? Or the drug problems in certain parts of Canadian society? Or the spread of STDs because of promiscuous behaviour.... Nobody ever speaks about something that "could happen theoretically..." in this context....

Last edited by OrangeMango; Jul 13th 2020 at 4:17 pm.
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