scrubbedexpat091

I certainly see no advantage to French in BC. I'll agree some federal jobs may require it, but other then that I see no real advantage to French.

I haven't even met anyone in 10 years who speaks French. The majority of Service Canada offices don't even provide in person French service, and they are federal office.

Most Canada Post offices I've been to also have no French service.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/cgi-b...t&pv=bc&ln=eng

dbd33

I only know the one francophone in BC. She went to university there and travelled for her school, UBC, mooting in French. It seems to me that being on a university's team for any sort of academic endeavor is valuable for the resume, if nothing else. Being eligible for the French language team, as well as the English language one, more than doubles one's chance of being selected (more than doubles as there are less French speakers than English speakers). An exchange to McGill for one term was facilitated by speaking French, I don't know if this was a factor in getting the exchange organised but am certain it helped in finding a flat for three months, buying groceries and in naming a ginger cat that moved in (called Orangina). I assume trading to another school is considered academically beneficial, it certainly broadens one's professional network.

She supported herself at the time by working as the receptionist at Vancouver's francophone cultural centre, a job open only to francophones (though, of course, there may be a Polish or Mandarin cultural centre). She then obtained a job working for the Feds in the DTES area of Vancouver, I'm told that the opportunity to work in such a "beautiful office" resulted from an long and highly competitive selection process; one in which bilingual candidates stood out as, in that trade, travel to Ottawa is necessary and may entail attending events in French.

French. Necessary, no. Advantageous, oh yes.

rivingtonpike

But like I say, the advantage of speaking French only came to be a direct benefit when she was out of BC. It got her to Ottawa, to name a cat etc - not to BC. I also think you're right, I would imagine there is, indeed, a Polish or Mandarin cultural centre. My point remains the same, the direct advantage to her was enjoyed when she left BC for other persuits.

She could equally, perhaps, have enjoyed a term in China or Japan if she spoke their relevant language.

dbd33

Eh? The DTES is in Vancouver. UBC is in Vancouver. She hasn't left Vancouver but succeeded there partly in consequence of speaking French.

Granted the French is mainly of value in dealing with the government or with other parts of Canada but that's still value. You, yourself, would benefit from speaking French as it would allow you to label your products for sale in Canada.

rivingtonpike

I know where the DTES and UBC are. The French language got her out of them and to Ottawa for a term - not into them.

Why do you pre-suppose I don't speak French?

dbd33

Perhaps I wasn't clear. She has a job in Vancouver for the Feds. Because it's for the Feds it sometimes entails trips to Ottawa. I don't think she would have the job, in Vancouver, but for speaking French. One could say the same of, for example, the BC agent of a Japanese firm; lives in BC, travels to Japan now and then, needs to speak Japanese to fully engage with people in Japan. The difference is that we're talking here about fully engaging with the people and government of Canada, the country where we live.

McGill is in Montreal.

I assume you don't speak French as you say labelling your goods in French is problematic, I suppose you don't have the same problem in English.

rivingtonpike

The problem with labelling in French as well as English is one of design and branding, not semantics. Having to put everything twice on the same packaging raises all sorts of aesthetic as well as logistical challenges. There would have been so much more we could have done visually and informatively had we not had to duplicate everything. The same would have been true whatever the second (unnecessary) language had been.

I think it's lovely when someone can speak two or more languages. I just don't see any significant advantage of French over other prevalent languages unless living in the region where that language is spoken.

dbd33

It's an official language and that leads to advantages for the speakers, like being native or, in Ontario, Catholic. Whether or not one wishes to make oneself a candidate for an affirmative action program is another matter, for example, I'm happy not to be able to use handicapped parking spots. I appreciate that others might willingly forego a choice of school systems to avoid having to learn French.

rivingtonpike

Don't most schools - if not all - teach French? If not, my kids are fortunate that they are. I thought it was a nationwide thing.

Souvy

That is probably also true of federal offices in QC (including Canada Post). My understanding is that there is no requirement to offer service in English if there is no local need for it.

Oink

If speaking French is not advantageous in BC, then why are all the French immersion classes over subscribed?

dbd33

I think most do but here, for example, there are four school boards;

- French Catholic (everything's in French, all communications with the school)
- French Other
- English Catholic
- English Other

For the latter two French is probably taught and other classes may be taught in French, in an "immersion" course, but the school is run in English.

French schools are only open to the children of francophones, Catholic ones to the children of Catholics. Cheating is widespread, of course.

scrubbedexpat091

From this website, the province just mandates a foreign language be taught in grades 5 to 8, but not necessarily French if I am reading it correctly.

"Boards of education decide which second languages will be offered. Core French will be the language offered if the board does not offer an alternative."

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page...4E7E584D447E4B

iaink

Surely these didnt come as a surprise to someone thats been in Canada a while?

If they had just changed the law and you had to retrofit the bilingualism to an existing design then sure, its a hassle, but its been that way for as long as I can recall so should have been thought of right from day one of the project rather than seen as an "additional" thing to have to tack on?

I suppose it does mean one label for Canada and one for the US...

iaink

I suspect its to do with immersion programs acting as a self selecting group for the smarter kids. The actual language of immersion teaching is largely irrelevant, I would argue that parents push kids into immersion for the academic challenges and stimulation. The fact that the less driven or less gifted kids naturally seem to fall by the wayside leaves those remaining a more "competent" group...Immersion is like the 11+ on the sly.

Once a kids brain is programed via immersion to operate in more than one language, its relatively simple then to learn other languages that may be deemed more interesting or useful. I dont know if thats scientifically true, but its the perception.