People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Feb 4th 2014, 8:56 pm
#211
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
I really don't think it does confirm what you said, you know.
Roughly every fifth Canadian resident is born outside Canada. Roughly every fourth Australian resident is born outside Australia. In the grand scheme of things that is not a significantly higher, much less a "far higher" percentage of immigrants. Both countries have a large immigrant population. Both countries' immigrant populations are from diverse cultures, but (according to graphs in the links posted) the single largest pool of Australian immigrants is still British. In Canada that ceased to be the case some years ago; Europe as a whole accounted for only 14% of Canadian immigrants; Australia's European contingent is a little harder to gauge from the stats (many included in "other") but is up around 30%.
We could argue the toss about cultural melting pots and integration. Anecdotally, there seem to be more people commenting that Australia is "more racist" than Canada, than there are folks (i.e. you) arguing the opposite. It's about attitudes, not statistics.
Roughly every fifth Canadian resident is born outside Canada. Roughly every fourth Australian resident is born outside Australia. In the grand scheme of things that is not a significantly higher, much less a "far higher" percentage of immigrants. Both countries have a large immigrant population. Both countries' immigrant populations are from diverse cultures, but (according to graphs in the links posted) the single largest pool of Australian immigrants is still British. In Canada that ceased to be the case some years ago; Europe as a whole accounted for only 14% of Canadian immigrants; Australia's European contingent is a little harder to gauge from the stats (many included in "other") but is up around 30%.
We could argue the toss about cultural melting pots and integration. Anecdotally, there seem to be more people commenting that Australia is "more racist" than Canada, than there are folks (i.e. you) arguing the opposite. It's about attitudes, not statistics.
My argument is it is not more about attitudes than statistics because attitudes are skewed by people's own biases and prejudices. If we just went on that every country in the world would be the most racist because they are all accused of it every day. Huge migrant nations are regularly accused of not welcoming newcomers by people who come from nations who hardly take anyone. It is not a subject that invites rationality.I saw the percentages and I think that is far higher, an additional 25% of Canada's total. I know both are massive immigrant nations which is why Australia being higher again shows the comments for what they are. Unbalanced.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:02 pm
#213
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Why don't you clearly point out the racism and why you think it is so. Would be a lot more constructive than snide, and inaccurate, accusations.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:06 pm
#214
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
You're right though to resist the temptation to generalize.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:08 pm
#215
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Doesn't become you. I have never called someone a wog in my life because I remember the days it was racist...but it would not be honest of me to say, since the Southern European community reclaimed the word in the 80's launching tv shows/plays etc that led to the massive debates in Australia about the use of the word, that usage is not always racist now amongst young people.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:10 pm
#216
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
No confusion, it is my main point. I don't disbelieve his experiences I disbelieve his conclusion that Canada is more racist. Anecdotes serve limited purpose in these debates as every country has masses of examples and people find it too hard to take their own nationality out of the debate and provide balance. They can't all be the most racist.
Last edited by fish.01; Feb 4th 2014 at 9:13 pm.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:14 pm
#217
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Doesn't become you. I have never called someone a wog in my life because I remember the days it was racist...but it would not be honest of me to say, since the Southern European community reclaimed the word in the 80's launching tv shows/plays etc that led to the massive debates in Australia about the use of the word, that usage is not always racist now amongst young people.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:16 pm
#218
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
No confusion, it is my main point. I don't disbelieve his experiences I disbelieve his conclusion that Canada is more racist. Anecdotes serve limited purpose in these debates as every country has masses of examples and people find it too hard to take their own nationality out of the debate and provide balance. They can't all be the most racist.
Sadly we are in a minority who find anecdotal argumentation annoying. I'll retract my remark.
Carry on.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:17 pm
#219
slanderer of the innocent
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
I just think racism is more overt in Australia than Canada. The same feelings may be there in both countries, but imo it's more accepted in society in Australia (i.e. it's okay cos the wogs are calling themselves wogs now too etc) whereas in Canada it's not.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:22 pm
#220
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Of course some don't like it...I wasn't talking in absolutes. I can't risk it because I remember the history. But I'm not going to lie and say the times I've heard young friends using it amongst themselves has always been racism. Some of our Greek friends use if all the time and all and sundry. They have grown up with the word diffused it has a totally different feeling to it than it did and I'm not sure they haven't got it more right than we did. I understand some might just be covering up but not all are...those massive public debates we had in the 80s really changed things, even if not universally better.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:26 pm
#221
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
I have the same reaction to the word and understand all the theory about people being really hurt underneath but really watching the younger people interact I'm not so sure. Australia has managed to absorb so many nationalities in its own ebullient way so my absolute faith in PC language is shaken a little...I think the debate is more complicated than I thought.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:32 pm
#222
.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20,185
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
I've heard awfully racist things said about Indians and First Nations people and it all seems to go over quite acceptably.
Feb 4th 2014, 9:33 pm
#223
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,039
Re: People come to Canada for Canada or the U.S
Anyway must go to work. My Australian colleagues of an British, Irish, Indian, South African, American, Canadian, Polish, Romanian, Russian, Korean, Chinese, Indonesian, Malaysian, Fijian, Samoan, Kiwi, Papua New Guinean, Singaporean, Nigerian, French, Spanish etc are waiting for me.
Look forward to your continued debate when I get home
Look forward to your continued debate when I get home
