iaink

There are plenty of products not tested on animals, but what I wanted to add is that I heat Danny Whatsisname the premier of NS is to debate this with McCartney on Larry King Live.

Normally I would rather gouge my eyes out than watch CNN, but it might be intersting to see how that goes.

Atlantic Xpat

Yeah, Danny Williams (The Premier of Newfoundland) vs Paul McCartney tonight on CNN. Not live however, taped interview.

Given Paul McCartney's reported comments here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4769628.stm and the lovely publicity photo of a wide-eyed whitcoat seal pup I doubt whether much constructive debate is likely to take place. Apparently the solution to the economic impact of banning seal hunting (as proposed by the former Beatle) is for eco-tourism to replace hunting. I'm not sure whther to laugh or cry over that.

iaink

My mistake NS /NFL, whassadifference

Eeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmm, I was under the impression that the whitecoats are not the ones having to look over their shoulder here...but they are much more photogenic eh

"He suggested that eco-tourism could replace the hunt to boost the depressed local economy, describing the thousands of seals as "a magnificent wildlife spectacle".

But Jean Claude Lapierre, president of the Magdalen Islands sealers' association, said numerous tourists on the ice would be distressing for the pups and their mothers."
Hmm, I wonder which is more "distressing"... flash photography and tourists or being clubbed over the back of your head.

So much bullshit from both sides!

dbd33

Wtf has this to do with product testing ? Are the cullers testing clubs and guns ?

There's an interesting current thread on that topic in the UK News folder here, http://www.guardian.co.uk/talk It's called "Animal Testing - Rational Discussion". Incredibly, it is almost rational.

Atlantic Xpat

Huh, typical mainlander ignorance


Correct. White coats (seal pups) are not hunted. But are much more photogenic than grey seals. Or chickens. Or fish or any of the myriad other animals farmed/harvested/hunted/abused that one could protest about if one were say a vegan megastar.

Souvenir

If McCartney is so concerned about cruelty to living creatures, why does he keep making bloody records?

I've heard, BTW, that he's reuniting with Ringo to bring out a new Beatles album. Drum and bass, mostly.

iaink

What did you expect Its apparently not only ILLEGAL to hunt the whitebacks, its also illegal to bother them in their natural environment, so technically Paul McCartney and Peg were photographed by the worlds media flagrantly breaking Canadian law!

Maybe they should be arrested live on the Larry King show

Corky

Anyone want a slice of seal flipper pie???....I hear it is good this time of year!

Souvenir

It was only a matter of time. Still, we made it to 52 posts.

stepnek

I must admit I don't understand the anti-McCartney sentiment. It's like it's the fashionable thing to do. Although maybe past his sell by date music wise all he's doing is expressing his opinion. He just doesn't have to use a forum like this to do it and is in a position to make himself heard more than most people can. Lets face it he's not going to change anything. Who of us in his position wouldn't try to use any influence that we might have if we felt strongly enough about something?

iaink

I think the hostility is due to the fact that his opinion is being expressed as fact, even though it is ill informed or incomplete.

The pictures with the whitebacks show either he hasnt a clue of the real facts, or he is cynically manipulating the media and doesnt care about the facts, which is even worse.

Suggestions of eco tourism seem to be overlooking the reality that its ok to go swanning of to the isle de la madalaine if you are a multimillionaire leading a life of leasure, but for the average canadian with ten days hols, its not going to be high on the "to do" list, and not easy or practical to do even if you wanted.

Look at the polar bears in Churchill MB, a magnificent sight for sure, but how many people are able to make a living from eco tourism there? certainly not 10000 which is a number Ive heard for what the seal cull helps to support. Then add in the fact that eco tourism would probably disturb the seals enough that there mating would be reduced, and you end up making things worse despite "best intentions".

Sure hes entitled to his opinions, but its a shame that the facts bet burried under the sentimantality of nice shots of cute white pups, and the hard realities of life in that area are dismissed, along the reality of conservation and exploitation of the natural resources of the area.

Souvenir

Try listening to Mull of Kintyre.

iaink

Frog Chorus!!!

oceanMDX

... and Canadians have developed new techniques to prevent discomfort for animals where toxicology studies are necessary. Dr. J. Sivak (one of my former profs) is one such Canadian:

"UW optometry professor wins prestigious vision research medal
WATERLOO, Ont. -- University of Waterloo Prof. Jacob Sivak has been named this year's winner of the prestigious Proctor Medal from the Association for Research in Vision and Opthalmology.

The medal, which recognizes "outstanding research of senior scientists in the basic or clinical sciences," will be presented at the U.S.-based association's annual meeting next week (May 4-9) in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Sivak, who heads the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council Bausch & Lomb Industrial Research Chair in Vitro Ophthalmic Toxicology based at UW, said he is "very honoured" to receive this award from the largest of the international eye research organizations.

He is being recognized for "major contributions to comparative optics, developmental refractive changes and environment effects on eye development and lens refractive state." As well, Sivak will give a lecture at the conference on Monday about his research, called "Through the Lens Clearly: Development and Phylogeny." The UW School of Optometry will host a reception to honour Sivak at the event.

Sivak left his post as dean of graduate studies last summer to continue with his research into more humane ways to test products safely without the use of live animals. His research is looking at developing a method to help to replace the Draize eye irritancy test where large numbers of rabbits are often subjected to discomfort.

He has worked for a number of years on tests based on bovine lenses acquired from dead animals at abattoirs. There has been some confirmation that, at least in some cases, the proposed bovine lens test is a more accurate reflection of the toxicological effect on the human eye than is the Draize test.

It is only the second time a Canadian has won the medal since it was first awarded in 1949. The other recipient was Prof. David Regan, psychology department, at York University in Toronto."

http://cclrserv2.uwaterloo.ca/sivakl...ctorMedal.html

Here's the new test that Sivak developed so that toxic chemicals no longer have to be dropped into rabbits' eyes:

http://cclrserv2.uwaterloo.ca/sivaklabs/Scantox.html


Perhaps McCartney should mention some of this stuff too and pay a visit to Dr. Sivak. I guess McCartney will be to apathetic to visit Waterloo and will be too busy allowing himself to be used by PETA

oceanMDX

What does this have to do with product testing you ask? It's about armchair critics from Britain criticizing Canadians regarding animal cruelty when animals in Britain underwent cruel toxicology testing as Canadians were developing humane methods and obtaining results with superior accuracy.

Perhaps it is Canadian celebrities who should be visiting British labs for photo ops on animal cruelty... or maybe McCartney should just stay at home and clean up the act there first?