ExKiwilass

WORD. I suspect some people are just born with the ability to lead and it's not something that can be taught. Good for you for being self-aware.

DigitalGhost

They're not real IT skills though but the problem is that these people think that they are so they then start actually applying for IT roles or, worst still, start arguing with the company IT staff when they're not treated as equal.

Put them in a Comms room or in front of Group Policy or something though and I think that most of them would start to break down, I know because I did it to someone once.

Alan2005

I sympathise with the developers. I hate dealing with people.

Butch Cassidy

Whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post, I challenge your (implied) assertion that there is a north american way of life. Rednecks in AB would have a different way of life to Rednecks in Montana who would have a different way of life to Rednecks in Alabama. Equally, Urbanites in Calgary (probably) have more in common with Urbanites in Perth WA than they do with Urbanites in New York.

DigitalGhost

I've worked with one decent Project Manager in my time and just one. Most IT management types from my experience have just been people who lacked the skills, inclination or dedication to learn anything technical and basically just schmoozed their way through the interview process.

ExKiwilass

You're not getting it are you? It doesn't matter if you don't think these are IT skills. The wider business world thinks they are. That's what matters.

R I C H

Web content management software and processes have been around for over 10 years, it's not a new spanner in the works to erode IT professionals value.....and who created the software to devalue the specialist skills? - the same IT professionals that are now apparently bitching about it

What company wouldn't choose a process or system that reduces overhead, or are the management types you refer to all mad for trying to rein in cost and stay competitive? Perhaps the code monkeys should be running the businesses.

DigitalGhost

You and me both.

My ideal company would be one with no end users in it.

ExKiwilass

exactly. Methinks DG is not getting the big picture. The point is not to make IT so difficult to understand only a few people can do it. The point is to make it easier.

DigitalGhost

I agree with you to be honest, although I think there's a huge difference between the likes of Dreamweaver and then something like red dot.

Fortunately the latter sort of software breaks almost frequently from what I've seen and most companies who buy it seem to want it to then do something which it wasn't intended to do, thus often breaking it further, so those who do actually know which end of the mouse to click will still be around for quite a while on that front I think, it has just made the competition for jobs a lot tougher.

DigitalGhost

I understand that, I just don't necassarily agree with it unfortunately, however it's the sort of thing which will continue anyway regardless of whether the likes of me agree with it or not, it's big business especially since most end users hate dealing with IT staff.

Butch Cassidy

People, I appreciate that we have 100+ posts and its understandable that we have drifted (way) of topic BUT why not just agree to disagree on the fact that IT 'professionals' are even further up there own backsides than Lawyers and Accountants

DigitalGhost

Not than lawyers they don't, I've never really met an accountant whom I didn't like though.

R I C H

+1 Here's one example of my experience that illustrates your point:

In the 90's I worked for a Govt. agency in the UK as a marketing manager. We employed IBM to maintain our website. IBM's contract supplied us with 4 staff, located at our site, plus external contractors. It cost over 1 million pounds p/yr to maintain the site in terms of infrastructure and staffing.

I wrote an RFP to look at alternative ways of resourcing and redeveloping the site. IBM lost the contract and I spent a third of the previous years budget implementing a content management system that all relevant agency staff could access to maintain their area of responsibility online. Apart from the reduced overhead, we gained additional office space that the IBM team used to occupy and more immediate publishing ability, rather than a lengthy process of submission and approval by IBM.

To suggest this is dumbing down is fatuous - it''s implementation of IT to assist processes and reduce cost, not to de-skill IT staff.

Butch Cassidy

Like I said I agree to disagree