gryphea

I too don't understand how those with a family of 4 will come out from UK to Calgary on $50-60 K and have anywhere near a reasonably lifestyle unless they come over with a shed load of cash (which presumably lots do).

It doesn't matter whether its the average income for alberta, for a family of 4 it will be a struggle. Might still be worth it for those struggling in UK of course.

iaink

Aye, but what was the exchange rate back then? Steves $20k was probably more like £4 or 5k

Steve_P

You're still not getting it. Consider inflation over the last 40 years and what salaries were in 1970 compared to today.

The cost of virtually everything except perhaps the cost of air travel has gone up significantly (close to tenfold more in some cases) in that time.

Steve_P

$20,000 in 1971 was likely equivalent to about £8,000 and it bought you an average 1,000 square foot bungalow in Edmonton.

iaink

You are right, Im not getting it then?

There has been inflation, I get that. I dont think inflation over the last ten years or so Ive been paying the mortgage has been close to the nightmare of the 70s oil crisis, but maybe I am mistaken about that? Salaries in 1970 would have been set with reference to property costs and cost of living, much as they are now... an average salary would get you an average house and and average car... the numbers would be different now, but would the ratio be all that different? half a years pay for a car or whatever, three years pay for a house etc...?

I also get that the median income is say $70k, similar to mine

I also get that even with my lowish mortgage payment I am not really clearing enough every month to save properly for retirement / college, never mind fund boys toys. Ill concede that in part that is because due to my location we need to run two cars. Other than that I dont think we do anything obviosly lavish that is sucking up funds, hell we dont even have cable TV or internet

I can see how older folks who have paid off the mortgage and got the kids through school and are now empty nesters and might have some disposable income, and I can see how some people may be able to live without a car and cut coupons and makes lifestyle choices that mean they can get by on less, but I dont get how other people my age, seemingly in the same financial ballpark as me, are able to own Boats, ATVs, Cottages etc, UNLESS they are running some serious debt.

So, wind the clock back 40 years, was it common for the middle class to have RVs and trailers and Snowmobiles and all that? I suspect it was far more usual for people to stay living within their means, and that stuff like that was a lot less common...

Steve_P

But we're talking two different groups.

What you're talking about are as I've quoted above and those I agree with you, they are most likely massively in debt.

I'm basically talking about people my age and maybe a few years younger who managed to get onto the property ladder on almost the bottom most rung.

When I started in ATC in 1972 the starting salary for a licensed controller was about $9,500 per year today the salary for where I last worked is close to $95,000 per year. Unfortunately for me most of that increase came after I retired.

R I C H

The only way I've been able to do it is through buying and selling property over time, and building up enough capital to have cash for toys/cars once the mortgage was paid. My salary's not dissimilar to yours, but the lack of kids certainly makes a big difference in terms of disposable income. I couldn't afford repayments on the things I've purchased, without compromising other aspects of lifestyle.

iaink

You must have been doing the work to two men then and noone would pick up the slack without the pay increase

iaink

no shit


But I wouldt be without them. Well, not without a very large tax free payment to an offshore account anyway....

iaink

Maybe I am getting it.... pay rates have failed to keep up with property inflation seems to be the gist of it? A house back then was a couple of years salary, now its 5 years salary, so older generation of toy owners had either paid off sooner or had more disposable income...

On the flip side the higher inflation in property means lots of equity to liberate into a line of credit to buy toys with for those stupid enough to think that a good idea!

dbd33

Something along these lines happened to me. I purchased a house, with my then wife, in the mid-eighties, for $140,000. We separated in 1989, she continued to live in the house and I retained half ownership until we divorced in, iirc, 2009. By about 2001 the mortgage, originally for $100,000, was paid off and the value of the house was such that I was able to buy another one using a line of credit secured against the equity in "her" house. The house, in whch I had given up my interest, was sold this year for just short of a million dollars.

A million bucks in equity allows one some leeway at the bank, a line of credit for say, $100,000, wouldn't result in crippling payments and would allow one to buy quite a nice yacht.

marcwales

Whoa, stop the bus, I wanna get off!!!

OK, lets try and draw a conclusion to this.

If I live in Durham area (Ajax, Oshawa, etc), provided I don't pay more than £300k CAD for a house I won't have a mortgage.
So, If I get a job on $70k CAD, will I have spare money a month for the nicer things in life?
Both of us are in our 30's, and 2 kids under 10. Need 2 cars (nothing flash, I've looked on Autotrader CA and $7500 CAD seems reasonable for a car/small SUV). I'd have to get a loan for these, and the get stuff for the house. So i was thinking of a loan for $20k CAD. Don't want to compromise house and use some money to buy cars as cars depreciate quicker than houses, so in a few years that money will have effectively gone. I know I'd have to pay interest rates on the loan, but I'd rather have the house we want than have 2nd choice. I hate moving as its expensive so would like to rent for a while, and pick our house once and for all.
I want a total lifestyle change if I move to Canada, so I want money to buy a jet ski, maybe a little boat in time, etc. Just fun things to do with the kids that we don't do here. You know, enjoy the weekends without constantly watching the money. Not expecting to live like millionaires, just not go into debt every month.
I appreciate all the replies, but can we try to stay focused on these questions for the next few posts please?

Do any of you live in that area, or know someone who does? I would love to be able to talk to someone on the ground in those areas.

Dashie

Depends on what you spend your money on, how much, how often you go out, where you buy your clothes, food, what food you buy, are brand names important to you, what temperature you set your thermostat too - there are too many variables to give a definitive answer to, sorry.

On that income, with no mortgage we'd be fine, but we also don't want jet skis or a boat. I have no idea how much those things cost to buy, run or insure. Kids' activities can be expensive, both after school type things, and taking them places - will they be signed up for much? Where and how often would you take them to places? Swimming in the lake is much cheaper than hockey. How often would you want to go on holiday, where would you go? How old are your kids, what school would you want them to go to? Do you care about them keeping up with their peers? Would the house you buy be a newer home, or an older one? How big? All of these things will determine your bills etc. Will you have a cell phone (they can range between $100-$1000 per year depending on package and usage)? What speed internet do you want? How many TV channels? Too many seemingly small things that only you will know the answer to.

That's not meant to sound so negative, but I'm not sure that anyone can really answer your question, and the above is meant to illustrate some of the millions of variables within that.

Not sure how you'd get on getting a loan with no credit history. My guess is that it would likely be secured against your house in some way if you buy. If you're renting, why get a loan at all if you'll have that much money to bring, and you'd have nothing to secure it against anyway, which could make getting a half decent rate tricky? Also, be aware that you'll likely pay 20% on top of listed car prices for various added fees and taxes. And it's also fairly unlikely in our experience that a $7500 car will last too long before it starts costing you a lot more. The environment etc. are very hard on cars here.

Have you looked at mls.ca? You can get an idea of house prices on there for anywhere in Canada, but it won't tell you anything about the area or schools, or probably whether the roof needs replacing. Some listings also show the property taxes.

For TV etc. look at rogers.com or bell.ca, maybe try contacting an insurance broker for a quote or two on these various things, but don't expect them to bend over backwards, ball park figures don't pay commission.

Maybe consider coming to the area you're interested in and staying for a few weeks to see if you like it, what the area's like, research the living costs applicable to you? There might even be a newcomers group in the city who can help you more with local specifics?

Oh, and you can't control what people write in a forum discussion any more than you can control a real life conversation. These things evolve, and what might be not be relevant to one person could be very relevant to another. For example, school bus fees don't concern me just yet, and I have no interest in owning a boat, whereas the price and availability of nice cheese and chocolate does

I'd also say that if your main reason for wanting to come to Canada is to have more money to buy 'stuff' then you might end up being disappointed, there's a lot more to the lifestyle change than that.

dbd33

That'll make you a social pariah. Beyond that, it's not usual to have a car and trailer here so that means upgrading one car to a truck. You'll want water to pollute and despoil so that means a cottage or frequent hotel bills. It'll quickly become expensive.

Gail

If I live in Durham area (Ajax, Oshawa, etc), provided I don't pay more than £300k CAD for a house I won't have a mortgage.
So, If I get a job on $70k CAD, will I have spare money a month for the nicer things


Property taxes are very expensive in the Durham region, we pay a lot more than my colleagues living in Toronto pay. One of my friends just bought a townhouse in Ajax for less than $300,000, her property taxes are $3500/year. We pay $6000 though our house is a detached 3100 sq ft.

If your children get involved in the many sports available you will also need a large chunk of income to pay fees/ equipment. My next door neighbour is off on tournaments every few weeks, frequently to the States, or to areas that involve overnight stays for 2 or 3 nights - factor in transport, food etc and soccer and hockey become very elitist.