JamesM

He was from Norwich and got pissed with Oink in Van City one time.

I don’t know what he drove but Canada drove him crazy.

He resurfaced at the Yard one time after a few years.

A quick search tells me he is still around and worked in BC a while so perhaps did pine for Kits?

Mordko

How can segregation not affect him? When people are segregated in schools, on buses, etc, its impacting them one way or another. And if this Apartheid is “explicit” then surely people are aware. Like I certainly wouldn’t choose to move to a country which practices Apartheid. You have peculiar tastes.

JamesM

Does the segregation in Canada effect you?

It certainly doesn't effect me although some of the behaviour exhibited in the school system has raised a lot of press recently.

It clearly doesn't effect the Prime Minister who use the day of Reconciliation and Truth to go on holiday.

dbd33

No, I had no idea when we came. An alternative destination was South Africa, we didn't go there because it seemed dangerous; we were aware of segregation there but that wasn't a factor in the decision so I can say that, had we known about the internal politics in Canada, that would not have influenced the decision as to where to go.

dbd33

It doesn't affect me at all. I'm aware of the Bantustans here but, since no one moves there, and few people move from there, it's not an issue day-to-day. By happenstance I've had exposure to aboriginal issues since the 1980s but no more or less so than to, say, the West Bank colonialization; that is, I work with a few victims.

Way, way, back when outsourcing computing to India wasn't working well, we toyed with setting up a service bureau, what's now called a cloud facility, on a reservation. The slogan was "The Third World In Your Time Zone". I think that could have been a winning idea but other things come along and we didn't follow through. It would have been a shit to have to go there, unsafe water and all, but, a buck is a buck.

Mordko

So, the Apartheid in Canada is “explicit” (aka stated clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt) but you didn’t know? Ignorant and careless, isn’t it? Then again, perhaps I am being unfair. Afeter all, as a “refugee”, what choice did you have?

Bantustans were created to strip blacks of civil and political rights and blacks from other parts of South Africa were forcibly transferred into Bantustans in accordance with the law, deprived of citizenship and not permitted to leave. Are Native Americans forced onto reserves in Canada? Can they not leave? Are they not permitted to vote in federal elections?

Non-whites under Apartheid required special documents to even be present on white-controlled lands. What does the Canadian version of such permits look like?

Under Apartheid law whites received 10 years of schooling while blacks received 6. And blacks were not permitted to study with whites. Which Canadian Federal law postulates similar injustice?

Five South African universities only accepted whites while the other five segregated. Which of those two options would UofT fall under? In Canada generous scholarships are offered to Status Indians, Non-status Indians, Inuit students, or Metis students. Tell me more about university scholarships for Blacks under Apartheid.

dbd33

I didn't know about it, just as I didn't know French was not in common use across the country. Note that, in the past timeframes were compressed; we first considered emigrating at the beginning of March and were in Canada in the middle of April having considered jobs on offer in the US, Australia, various other countries. Even if one were interested, that leaves little time for studying the nuances of fiscal and population policies under the various administrations. Anyway, if one cared, one would have trouble choosing the least bad regime for treatment of the native populations by colonial administrations. Yikes, they're all terrible!

Aboriginal Canadians are held in their reservations by a range of coercive policies. Some do leave. One can, for example, see numbers of them sleeping rough in Toronto parks. I personally have little difficulty in seeing why people do not choose to give up their tax exempt status to move from a tar paper shack on a reservation to a shared park bench. The one offers poisoned water, the other no water at all. Offered no future, one may as well take the money, and the drugs, and stay put, there's no need for legislation requiring that, only if that policy goal were not currently being achieved would there be a need for further legislation.

It's popularly called the "Injun Card" I expect google can convert that to the official name and image.

caretaker

There was a reserve pass system in place from 1885 to 1951 that qualified as apartheid, though the latest one I've seen was from the early 40's. The Indian Agent would authorize people to leave the reserve for varying lengths of time depending how far they had to go and what for. Hauling grain to the elevator or working off the reserve might be a day pass; going to visit kids in residential school might be 2 weeks if it involved a 5 day trip each way by horse and wagon and 3 days to visit. The "Indian List" was the racist term used for a list of patrons no longer allowed in beer parlours, and I haven't heard it since the early 70's.
https://puncheddrunk.ca/firstnations-interdiction.html
A common complaint of racists in Canada is they don't like subsidizing reserves, and that treaties signed hundreds of years ago should be no longer binding. That's Proud Boy shit, and you can hear it in the bars, usually when there aren't any natives around. Those documents are legally binding, and they're here to stay, and every year more of the land that was supposed to go to the natives in the first place but withheld or outright stolen is returned via the courts. If you're going to live in Canada, for ****'s sake read the treaties for your area; I wish it was a requirement for immigration and on the test.

Mordko

Apartheid is a legal system enforced by the government. Lets start with the legal system. Canadian laws are readily available on the internet. Please provide a link to:

1. A law stating that a native American without the “injun card” can’t reside in Toronto.
2. Coercive laws preventing the leaving of reservation and enforcing rough sleeping for those who do.

While you are at it, could you also explain why a perfectly Anglo-Saxon professor at a Canadian uni would want to pretend to be a Native American? Would that be because she wanted dirty water or bench sleeping?

Also, how come your water isn’t dirty?

dbd33

The first two points are covered above. The boom in fake natives is a consequence of affirmative action policies. Whenever there's a policy to assist those systemically disadvantaged there will be people wanting to exploit those policies by pretending to belong to the disadvantaged group. They typically do not want to experience the actual disadvantage. People are shit, as you may already know.

Mordko

Searched you posts for the links to laws and couldn’t find any. Am I not being clear?

In that case shouldn’t be too difficult for you to provide similar examples during the Apartheid.

dbd33

Nonetheless, what I think you're arguing is that discriminatory government policies only exist if the specifics of them are enshrined in laws; you're asking for documentation of residency rights in one of Canada's urban areas. I'm explaining to you that discrimination can be achieved without writing down exactly what the individuals can and cannot do. In this instance the operation of the tax laws is sufficient to keep people in their place.

I hope you're not suggesting that native Canadians have equal status to other people in the country. That's so obviously not the case, one can even kidnap natives and bury them in one's pig farm without flustering the authorities.

Here's a piece on people pretending to be native, advantage in academia is a common reason but not the only one:

https://longreads.com/2014/08/04/why...t-of-thin-air/

Mordko

Sorry for not being clear. What I am actually suggesting is that you don’t know the meaning of fairly basic terms like “explicit”, Apartheid” and “refugee”. .

Paul_Shepherd

Er...yes. And are you a white female?

CanadaJimmy

Indeed. And the treaties and lack of understanding make solving these issues so much more difficult. For example, the lack of clean drinking water. If it was a regular city or town, then the taxes from the local residents would pay for this local service. Since reserves don't have any equivalent of municipal tax, so it HAS to be covered by the federal government. But unlike local taxes/representation, the federal government is disconnected and distant, they basically get forgotten about.