Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Dress it up that way if it suits. He has banned people from 7 Muslim majority countries.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

If US bans travel/business with north Korea, does that mean it is prejudiced against north Koreans ? One can be against this ban, but saying it is against Muslims just isn't true.

I wish the pressure would be on him to explain why Saudi Arabia not at top of list - this would force Trump into a corner using his own words and logic, and would have more influence beyond those who are opposed to him any way no matter what he does.

In any case, after 90 days he will drop the ban, announce tough new vetting, making his supporters happier he had shown he is tough, while opponents will of course find something else to get upset about.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

With reference to my previous posts:
Do you see Trump as a despot - the same as Mugabe, Ceaușescu, Seko and co - so no problem with a state visit

or

Do you see Mugabe, Ceaușescu, Seko and co as not being despots (worthy of a state visit) but Trump as not worthy of a state visit as he is a racist/despot/dictator/illegitimate leader

One of these statements is true

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Maybe because they're a semi-terrorist state, not only founded by terrorists but also run by similar people to this very day? Actively breaking human rights, committing crimes against humanity, doing everything to sabotage the peace process wherever possible (even murdering their own PM in order to achieve this goal), heck they've even murdered Americans servicemen in the aim of making it look like the Arabs did it by removing all markings from their aircraft and sinking the USS Liberty, then circling around to butcher as many survivors as possible.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Or maybe it's because they are majority muslim states (14 in total - I checked) and therefore hate Jews (but can only discriminate against Israel as it is the only Jewish state in the world)

Israel is the only democracy in the middle-east - a island of hope in a women/Jew/gay/Christian hating islamic sea

Judaism is not a problem for the 21st century western world but islam is

Simple

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Years ago I worked for a company that had big projects in Saudi Arabia, and if Saudi Arabia found out any of their employees were Jewish they were expelled. But the company ended up facing a lawsuit from a Jewish group for discriminating against Jewish employees by telling them it wasn't a particularly good career move to work in Saudi Arabia.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

One could just as well say that Israel is a Jewish state and therefore hates Muslims. That's your way of thinking, right?

You're living in la-la land here. Israel is a religious state whose founders were terrorists (they even committed acts of terror against the UK or attacked Americans like the assault on the USS Liberty) and who are run by similar people today. Extremists are in power, they are exempt from military duty (instead sending everyone else in, including forcing WOMEN to fight), and they are pushing for war and instability across the region, stealing other people's land, etc.

Radical anything is a problem, including radical Judaism which regards other people as non-human, which is why you had the FBI even arresting a bunch of rabbis in the US who were into the organ trade. For them they were simply trading in animal parts because that's what radicalisation has done to their beliefs.

Similarly, Islam is not a problem but radical Islam is. But the real problem is people like Trump acting against all Muslims in general, which is exactly what the radicals want. Just like GWB going after a secular leader in Iraq played right into the hands of extremists.

Of course a 2-bit monkey like Trump doesn't even know that he's hurting America here and doing everything the extremists could have hoped for.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Of course it is against Muslims.

Michael Bloomberg:

"The executive order invidiously treats Muslims differently from non-Muslims. That burdens Muslims’ expression of their religion, violating both the equal protection and free exercise clauses.

It does so in the first instance by singling out majority-Muslim countries for targeting -- without a basis in national security as it claims. And it also singles out Muslims by prioritizing Christians.

As written, the order doesn’t reach all majority-Muslim countries or all countries that produce terrorists. It conspicuously omits Saudi Arabia, from which 15 of the 19 Sept. 11 attackers hailed.

It also doesn’t use the word “Muslim” or “Christian,” instead referring to religious minorities in the seven countries.

But the president himself has clarified to the Christian Broadcast Network and on Twitter that he intends the order to give preference to Christians. The government therefore can’t hide behind the order’s text, as seemingly neutral as it is.

Trump’s explanation also shows why the order endorses Christianity over Islam.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...igious-liberty

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Someone summed this up perfectly:

"This is not a ban against Muslim nations. It is a ban against Mulsim nations that Trump does not do business with." :)

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

I'm having real trouble making my mind up about this guy to be honest, as a stand alone case, quite clearly a nutter. But in comparison to his predecessors, not so much.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

The ban isn't against all Muslims, but I agree it is against 7 states in which the majority are Muslims. Whether correct or not the excuse is that vetting procedures are not sufficient enough to justify letting them in- am I mistaken that the CIA and FBI director both said in 2016 they could not properly vet those coming in the country from those areas ? If that is correct, is it not a national security issue ?

Yes there was an exclusion for religious minorities I guess simply a political move to curry favor, or the belief that Christians are (a) being targeted because of their religion (b) that Christians in the Middle East don't pose a terrorist threat. Since yes they are being targeted and as far as I know not engaging in terrorist attacks against US interests I don't have a problem with that exclusion.

However I guess one can say it targets Muslims from those countries on that basis, but isn't the issue whether they are or aren't a security risk ? I don't think anyone would say all are a security risk, but can they be properly vetted ? I don't know but wouldn't the opinion of the FBI or CIA director be considered the best to determine this ?

It is in my mind hypocritical not to include Saudi Arabia on the list, that alone removes any even remote concept that this was a reasonable policy.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

I thought the CIA was run by Nazis

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Dress up what. You are twisting the facts. That's what you lefties like to do. See Astera's twist on Israel in this thread and Brisbane / Gold Coast in others.

Morpeth has a pretty good wrap up of the situation. I have no need to reiterate that. Just read it and weep.

Let me ask you this. Does the ban of the 7 countries include non muslims? Yes it does. Keep trying. Do some better research next time.

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Awesome. The media are now picking up the hypocrisy of the left.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/us-politics-trumps-visa-ban-just-the-same-as-kevin-rudds-tactics/news-story/eada2c68147e8e4394705623a77163d1

Re: The Trumpmare is happening... Who will win?
 

Ouch.

A British citizen who has visited Israel, and has evidence of it on my passport, I cannot visit Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. Meanwhile, 16 Muslim states, including Yemen, Iran, Iraq and Syria have a blanket ban on Israelis entering their countries.

Even more of an ouch

It's not so different from what Obama did when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months – that's six by the way, not three – in 2011. That's the Obama who also referenced the same seven countries identified by his successor as sources of terror.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/31/donald-trumps-travel-ban-not-nazism-many-muslim-countries/

Explains pretty well why these 7 countries are on the list and not others. State sponsored terrorism anyone?