Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

>>I agree that it grew from the 'common market' which Britain joined into something much more but let's be honest; the main reason Brexit won the day was the immigration issue pure and simple. The polls showed that immigration was clearly ahead of the economy as the main factor. Dress it up whichever way you want but exiting the EU was seen as a way of controlling migrants. Well, we had a BRITISH court (not an EU one) just decide against the government and who knows whether British border controls will work?<<

There's no doubt that a lot of people did vote on things like immigration control and the economy, but don't underestimate the large number who wanted to regain democratic control over the legislature.

As one who voted enthusiastically in 1975 or the Common Market and has seen how accountability has been steadily taken away from those who rule over us my sole concern was to get back control over parliament - and I am sure that was the main reason for a majority of the votes.

A good piece in the DT today by Charles Moore:

Referendums are now part of our democracy - if judges reverse them, we are in a dangerous place

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

1973? Remember it well - Australia got dumped by Britain as a (Commonwealth) preferential trading partner!

As I said, the irony is that some people wanted to get control back from Brussels and then the British High Court goes and rules which greatly upsets Brexiters. I was getting a haircut yesterday and the barber said something like 'what about those judges stopping Brexit'. I corrected him of course and said they were ruling on how Brexit would proceed - the PM couldn't decide the timing and details, it was up to a majority of MP's. That's subject to a government appeal on the ruling of course.

May might be acting a bit like Cameron (who presumed Remain would win) in saying to all and sundry yesterday and today that Brexit will proceed with Article 50 being triggered in March. We'll see.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

They clarified that the path being pursued previously was the incorrect process. They didn't take away your beloved Brexit so keep your toys in the pram.


I now see Brexit as the Tories version of the Iraq war. Slight majority in public support going in, within a few years support had narrowed very substantially and now it's become very popular to complain about being lied to and, in a collective national amnesia, many people suddenly don't recall having supported it. More recent polling already suggests that, far from building support for Brexit and the mandate to act, voters views are swinging in favor of the EU.

I did support the Iraq war for those of you playing at home but in hindsight I was wrong to.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

The Daily Mail now labelling three judges as "enemies of the people" for following the letter of the law? What a load of idiots...

On a lighter note, what a brilliant move by BBC Newsnight:
:thumbup:

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

So with that in mind is it possible that this last couple of months has been nothing more than a cynical charade in preparation for defying the will of the voting majority?

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

'The will of the people' was to leave the EU - this is about the mechanism for doing that - when Article 50 is triggered, by whom and the terms of the withdrawal. 74% of MP's voted remain; 51% of the people voted leave. MP's, particularly Tory MP's with an overwhelming majority of constituencies who voted leave, face some difficult times ahead.

We've already seen one Tory MP resign over this saying the party has lurched to the right and is no more than UKIP Lite.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

I understand fully the democratic process for this and 500 years of democracy being maintained in this situation.. However I don't know how I would feel about this if I'd have not been out of the UK for the past 36 years.

Surely it's better for the Brexit people to have a negotiated balanced withdrawal approved by parliament ? AFAIK nothing has changed re following the will of the people re withdrawal, has it ?? Just that it goes through Parliamentary process now, which has to be a good thing ? Rather than some hurried "Sign here on the dotted line" exit paper.


Maybe it's easier to see this from outside the country.... and especially not knowing which way would be best.

Don't the 48 pct that voted no to brexit get to have some kind of democratic input ? Isn't that what parliament and the Westminster system which is apparently the envy of the world is all about.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

Of course parliament needs to approve this. Otherwise any gov't could do such a thing (be it brexit, NATO-exit or any other form of self harm...) at will without any referendum, since the referendum itself isn't even legally-binding.

The law is the law, as much as the brexit brigade hate this notion...

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

You are forming your arguments to remain in the EU. That's fine, your stance is known, but there is a majority in the UK who wants to leave. If this is all manufactured to manipulate the decision to suit your desires, what does that say for democracy and the point of future referendums on any topic?

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

The law is the law, PERIOD.

Personal opinions of any number of nitwits are completely irrelevant here, as are their wants and desires.

Want to leave the EU against the rule of law? Feel free to buy a 1-way ticket to Somalia and leave the EU the moment you board the plane...

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

All other decisions for the country were made via Parliament. Going into war, entering the EU and ERM, even banning fox hunting. Why should have Brexit been any different, but DC didn't want to play by the usual rules and was maybe a bit arrogant in thinking Brexi wouldn't happen. In hindsight he should have played by the rules that had been laid down years ago. The UK never had proportional representation or referendums previously.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

That's an increasingly interesting point actually, is there? The public are an unscrupulous bunch who seem to whimsically change their minds.

That's where it gets really interesting, with a razor thin referendum you might expect the PM to be building a broader consensus within society. However the PM has actually told us she expects a rapid implementation and is willing to tolerate the highest risk option for the UK. It also happens this is the EUs preference. Far from building a broader consensus she has remained tight lipped and discussed little about the strategy or path the UK will be in after Article 50 is invoked. Is the PM trying to implement a Brexit or is there a game being played we don't yet fully see?

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

I'm all for the "high risk" exit. The groupthink mindset within the EU - NOT Europe - cannot comprehend that there can be life outside it. The fact that there are countless countries making their own way in the world without the control of the EU bureaucracy is way above their heads. Except that they are terrified of other EU members deciding that they would be better deciding their own laws and policies.

Talk to some of the EU commission members or their underlings: it's rather akin to arguing with Scientologists.

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

Putin would be proud. Especially since he's the one "investing" in Trump, brexit, etc., and is counting on 'useful idiots' doing their part as well...

Oh really? Shucks. Funny stuff. Everyone in the EU can comprehend a whole lot more than the typical quitter, no doubt about it. :)

So what? Look at the big picture: the EU is the world's biggest economy. Go any try to negotiate deals all over again from the POV of a small, insignificant partner... and then look at how things go when you are representing the economic powerhouse of this planet.

They are doing a great job and are working hard to secure what's best for the EU. If you want to look at the brainwashed morons out there just set your eyes on the nearest brexit-supporting clown...

Re: Did the UK do the right thing in voting to leave the E.U.
 

One thing that evidently hasn't changed since the vote is the personal insults that are thrown, mainly it has to be said from the remainers' side.

The EU the world's biggest economy? Missed that.

In any case, talking about the EU's economy as one entity is pushing it slightly. The farce over six years of talks with Canada shows what is obvious - every country looks after its own interests first. Then there's the Northern economy and the Club Med economy - vastly different in scale and application. The Euro has only made things worse for several of the Southern countries but the underlying differences were obvious from the get-go well before the Euro.

We will obviously agree to differ: I respect the opinions of remainers; some of their points are valid. I don't think they are "morons", either.