Amazulu

Neither

Trump has some excellent domestic and economic ideas - genuinely conservative - but his foreign policy would be a disaster. I do like his plan for the wall though - that would be super cool

Clinton, for different reasons, will be a disaster too

Beoz

Did the Brexiters really say that ...... or do you just want to think they said that? Wasn't Brexit all about immigration and not about the economy?

OzTennis

When it was suggested they were just concentrating on immigration and that it would cause difficulty for the economy they said with new trade deals that Britain would be better off than under the EU and they brushed off warnings from many as scaremongering. I could paste links to the guff Farage, Gove, Johnson etc came up with but you wouldn't read them and you probably knew little about it in any depth in Sydney to be honest.

OzTennis

"The lie direct of the Brexit campaign was that the European Union cost us £350m a week. The bigger lie, which some Leave supporters may even have believed, was that there were no hard choices. We could have it all. Immigration controls, prosperity, access to EU markets, without compliance with EU laws… Whatever we wanted, at no cost at all.

Or as Boris Johnson, a politician who has never made the mistake of believing what he says, told his credulous supporters: “This is a great country and great economy and I think people know we can do brilliantly if we take back control.”

An honest version of Johnson (if you can imagine such a creature) would have gone to the Nissan car workers in Sunderland and said words to the effect of: we may be able to deliver the immigration controls you want if we leave the single market but there is a risk that you will lose your jobs if we do.

The cynicism of Johnson, Gove and Farage’s failure to lay out the difficult decisions shocked the naive. But these men were charlatans fighting a campaign they were prepared to win without honour."

OzTennis

Trump is an embarrassment to his own party with the top Republicans distancing themselves from their own candidate. He used current tax loopholes (citing a $916 mill loss in 1995) to avoid paying federal taxes since then. His 'excellent economic ideas' will probably include cracking down on those he perceives as lazy and undeserving and he'd cut benefits.

It's not surprising the wall proposal strikes a chord with you.

Trump incidentally has lost £26 mill so far on his 2 Scottish golf projects nr Aberdeen and at Turnberry. He hasn't paid any UK corporation tax and he presented a different set of accounts re his Scottish interests to the US authorities than the ones he submitted to UK authorities (so there wouldn't be any problem with his nomination; he totally refuses to make his tax affairs transparent). A billionaire who pays little tax.

What a local entrant in a scarecrow competition we judged thinks of Trump:



At the official opening of his Turnberry resort Paddy Power bookmakers pulled off a brilliant PR stunt - whilst Trump was talking they had a Mexican Mariachi band play and drown him out!

astera

The UK does indeed look neglected. I hopped over recently for a week and drove around more than I have ever done, and the picture was bleak to say the least. In certain areas if I took pictures without any other cars/licence plates visible I could probably make them pass for a trip to some distant country far, far away in the south-easterly direction, that maybe - just maybe - could seek EU entry in 20 years...

Saw a lot of dilapidated city centres as well, packed with dodgy people at night, including lots of youths living out a 'misspent childhood'.

I won't even get into the whole housing issue, where old, tiny, hobbit-style homes with minimum space are still prevalent. The whole picture was a bit depressing.

What's strange is that overcrowding seems to be a cultural thing, something that I hadn't thought of earlier as a source of the issue. Whereas it's natural for major cities to encounter this problem, for the first time I saw that smaller towns are also jam-packed with minimalist housing, and yet there's plenty of space literally minutes away to expand (but why bother, right?).

As you mentioned, the way the gov't is placing all its bets on the banking sector (the pure definition of a voodoo economy) is puke-inducing. We don't need Brexit... we need to put an end to the parasitic "City" hijacking our country.

That was silly, because EU immigration is beneficial to our nation from all aspects. Not only has it been of great benefit to our economy and budget, but when our neighbours come over, have kids, send those kids to school... out comes a new generations of Brits. Win-win situation.

Most wanted out because they didn't want Muslims coming in from outside the EU, which goes to show how little they understood the issue at hand. Nor did most people realise (as the gov't and the brexit brigade had deliberately tiptoed around these figures) that most immigration to the UK each year is still greater from OUTSIDE the EU than from within it. And guess who controls 100% of those cases? We do!

Beoz

Same news, same websites, available from your arm chair are available from mine.

You could paste links, and I would take a look. I'm not saying they didn't say it, I just want to read what they said. I do not trust left wingers for one minute. You guys habitually lie to suit your own agenda so I just want to read the links for myself.

BTW the links in your next post are broken or are from the Guardian. The Guardian doesn't count and doesn't point to any specific page.

OzTennis

The Telegraph said it was a lie (although Farage said it was a 'mistake' to claim extra money would be available).

Nigel Farage: £350 million pledge to fund the NHS was 'a mistake'

I suspect rather than say anything you'll say you can't be bothered clicking on links.

Bermudashorts

The UK does send £350m to the EU every week on average, it does however get a rebate which brings that down to £280m a week. I would put it to you that anyone upset at the £350m figure would also find the £280m figure unpalatable.

Leaving the EU does make that money available for the government of the day to use in any way they see fit. In the decades to come different governments can and will chop and change what that (and other taxpayer money) is spent on, this is obvious surely?

It is utterly baffling to me that so many Remainers continue to think that the referendum was about short term economic and spending policy. It was so much bigger than that.

OzTennis

£350 mill per week extra for the NHS was the Leave claim - plastered on buses which toured the country and in big letters on the rostrum when they spoke. It was a blatant lie and has been refuted. It was the UK's gross yearly contribution divided by 52 and the claim was that this would be extra money for the NHS if leave won.

Britain gets a rebate on gross EU contributions and it is taken off before any money is paid so the gross amount was a lie.

It's a lie because this ignores EU spending in the UK.

It's a lie because it requires a UK government to spend all of the 'savings' on the NHS - surely farmers, manufacturers, students and umpteen other groups would not allow the government to spend all the inflated lie figure on the NHS.

It's a lie because if Britain remains in the single market they will make significant budget contributions i.e. depending on the type of Brexit it is unlikely that there will be zero contributions in future.

However, £350 mill per week extra for the NHS had an impact on the vote as few looked into the claim other than remainers or economists.

It was about long term economic impacts. However, a recent Sky poll showed that the number one issue for people is immigration and that's why the vote turned out as it did.

OzTennis

Another lie - Johnson the committed Brexiter.

Boris Johnson makes light of 'semi-parodic' pro-EU column - BBC News

Boris Johnson knew this week's financial disasters would happen – and he also knew he'd never be affected by them | The Independent

Bermudashorts

The bus said "Let's spend it on the NHS". Just a suggestion, no more no less.

Nobody fault you don't understand the word "let's". I always thought it was a pretty simple word most people understand.

Leave campaign didn't make any election pledges because it wasn't an election.

Beoz

That's how the left play it. They create lie out of what they perceive a lie.

astera

This looks more like a proposition, and posting it officially meant it was supposed to be a credible and feasible thing to do. The only problem is that... it... is... not. And Farage just laughed it off as a "mistake."

But they lied about practically everything. Of course the quitters, with their one gear going forward and 5 gears for reverse mindset, had a much easier task as they were fighting for backing from the lowest levels of society, where common sense isn't all that common.

GarryP

Well that's a bit of word salad.

The reality is the leave lot lied a lot, they also simplified things down past the true complexities, and then they didn't take responsibility for the mess they made.

No part of the right have covered themselves in glory over this - either then or now. The reality is that all they know how to do is destroy, so that's what they are aiming to do. However what's needed is a plan for building anew, for direction and vision - and they don't have the faintest clue (I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that).

Labour is having an internal knife fight.

Frankly politics, and the democratic system, has failed massively. Total screwup, borne of their inability to work with plans & facts. Same in the EU. Same in Australia. Same in the US.

Prizes go to the first country to find a way to put adults in charge.