The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Aug 4th 2010, 12:48 am
#301
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
A lot of Australia is dreaming of ADSL and resorts to wireless or Satellite. Packet loss and latency is a nightmare.
93% of it
You could get a lot of businessmen out of the air with high quality teleconferencing and by giving them access to better business information systems which could only be carried on the NBN. No, you cannot optimise theses systems on 7mb of ADSL bandwidth because of the nature of the underlying technology. Loss, latency and congestion cannot be designed out of ADSL (or IP) and bandwidth is capped. You can design out these undesirable features but you end up with fiber and lossless ethernet ie the NBN.
You could get a lot of businessmen out of the air with high quality teleconferencing and by giving them access to better business information systems which could only be carried on the NBN. No, you cannot optimise theses systems on 7mb of ADSL bandwidth because of the nature of the underlying technology. Loss, latency and congestion cannot be designed out of ADSL (or IP) and bandwidth is capped. You can design out these undesirable features but you end up with fiber and lossless ethernet ie the NBN.
Aug 4th 2010, 1:06 am
#302
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Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Top Countries Ranked by Speed out of 181 countries.
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
Currently Australia, on average, is about on par with the UK, on average.
and me:
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
- 4: Netherlands 21.86 Mb/s
- 12: Germany 14.71 Mb/s
- 27: United States 9.89 Mb/s
- 36: United Kingdom 7.86 Mb/s
- 37: Australia 7.47 Mb/s
Currently Australia, on average, is about on par with the UK, on average.
and me:
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
Aug 4th 2010, 1:11 am
#303
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Posts: 24,246
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
People can fly right now. Have you tried connecting a business remotely in Australia? It is expensive and unreliable and made my previous job a nightmare. The NBN gives business all over Australia access to what costs a fortunes at the moment.
Rail is important around the cities and needs funding but I still do not see any candidate shouting for that.
Rail is important around the cities and needs funding but I still do not see any candidate shouting for that.
I understand the importance of the NBN but I don't see why the government should be funding all of it. I reckon it should be a combination of public and private money.
Fixing the rail/port bottlenecks in Qld and NSW is important and should not cost too much - again a combination of private/public money should be used. High speed passenger rail would be great but there are more pressing issues. Same for the UK, some of my friends are working on the proposed HS2 high speed north/south rail proposal but it's going to cost GBP30b+ and the UK government hasn't got the money to do it - and won't have for a decade.
Last edited by Amazulu; Aug 4th 2010 at 1:20 am.
Aug 4th 2010, 1:15 am
#304
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Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Top Countries Ranked by Speed out of 181 countries.
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
- 4: Netherlands 21.86 Mb/s
- 12: Germany 14.71 Mb/s
- 27: United States 9.89 Mb/s
- 36: United Kingdom 7.86 Mb/s
- 37: Australia 7.47 Mb/s
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
Last edited by Amazulu; Aug 4th 2010 at 1:19 am.
Aug 4th 2010, 1:16 am
#305
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Any stats for regional Australia. NBN will bring Australia right up. 100mbs to each house. After that it is down to regional backhaul and international links.
IMO the big benefit is the quality of connection fibre will give households and more importantly business will be able to do more on the net.
The NextG speeds sound impressive but the quality is not great.
IMO the big benefit is the quality of connection fibre will give households and more importantly business will be able to do more on the net.
The NextG speeds sound impressive but the quality is not great.
Top Countries Ranked by Speed out of 181 countries.
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
Currently Australia, on average, is about on par with the UK, on average.
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
- 4: Netherlands 21.86 Mb/s
- 12: Germany 14.71 Mb/s
- 27: United States 9.89 Mb/s
- 36: United Kingdom 7.86 Mb/s
- 37: Australia 7.47 Mb/s
Currently Australia, on average, is about on par with the UK, on average.
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
Aug 4th 2010, 1:25 am
#306
You call that a moustache
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Heading West..
Posts: 2,060
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Top Countries Ranked by Speed out of 181 countries.
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0
- 4: Netherlands 21.86 Mb/s
- 12: Germany 14.71 Mb/s
- 27: United States 9.89 Mb/s
- 36: United Kingdom 7.86 Mb/s
- 37: Australia 7.47 Mb/s
and me:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/902338013.png
Will NBN make us much faster than the UK ?
Yep, you have to cheat to get IP over satellite so it can be a bit of a mare, the problem with wireless used to be available spectrum but this is close to being resolved.
Aug 4th 2010, 1:36 am
#307
You call that a moustache
Thread Starter
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Location: Heading West..
Posts: 2,060
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
The great thing about fiber is that if you have the pits and a reasonable design its easy to lay and construct a network, the even better thing about fibre is that you can squeeze more capacity out of the fiber that you have in the ground.
I used to have some involvement with the southern cross internet link, there were plans in place a few yesras ago to enhance the dry bits and modify FEC which were projected to bring an x8 capacity gain for very little money (50-100m?).
Aug 4th 2010, 1:51 am
#308
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
We found Telstra only in some sites if you took out a very long contract. Optus would not touch it and Telstra knew it by their prices.
Another issue in the Pilbara is the mines building slag heaps in the line of site of sat links.
[QUOTE=Amazulu;8751024]Interestingly, the mine site in the Pilbara that we are designing at the moment will have a Telstra fibre coming into it - it's not the most remote site but I'm quite inpressed with this.
QUOTE]
Another issue in the Pilbara is the mines building slag heaps in the line of site of sat links.
[QUOTE=Amazulu;8751024]Interestingly, the mine site in the Pilbara that we are designing at the moment will have a Telstra fibre coming into it - it's not the most remote site but I'm quite inpressed with this.
QUOTE]
Aug 4th 2010, 2:23 am
#309
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Posts: 9,316
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
We have that right now. We don't need the NBN for that.
I'm not trying to win any debates. Manipulate maybe. Debate, no. This is a discussion forum, not a debate.
Australia cannot grow if it doesn't have the infrastructure to support it. Infrastructure is good for business and the economy. Australia needs to grow to be competitive on the world market. The NBN will not provide the infrastructure to help Australia grow.
As for rail. The more people in Australia the more people travelling. That means the more people flying to/from the major cities. Rail will provide a viable alternative and provide competitive price pressure to the airlines which should result in reduced airfares. All one has to do is look at the population growth in the last 5 years to see that Australia is creaking at the seams because it cannot cope with population growth.
And, if you are an enviro-nazi, rail is more carbon friendly.
National broadband network... It's a nice to have. It's not going to work miracles for productivity in business while it may reduce some communications costs. And that won't be significant because there will still be a monopoly. And who needs IPTV?
For normal uses an internet connection speed of around 7 mbps is fine.
Business thrived well before the internet even existed.
I'm not trying to win any debates. Manipulate maybe. Debate, no. This is a discussion forum, not a debate.
Australia cannot grow if it doesn't have the infrastructure to support it. Infrastructure is good for business and the economy. Australia needs to grow to be competitive on the world market. The NBN will not provide the infrastructure to help Australia grow.
As for rail. The more people in Australia the more people travelling. That means the more people flying to/from the major cities. Rail will provide a viable alternative and provide competitive price pressure to the airlines which should result in reduced airfares. All one has to do is look at the population growth in the last 5 years to see that Australia is creaking at the seams because it cannot cope with population growth.
And, if you are an enviro-nazi, rail is more carbon friendly.
National broadband network... It's a nice to have. It's not going to work miracles for productivity in business while it may reduce some communications costs. And that won't be significant because there will still be a monopoly. And who needs IPTV?
For normal uses an internet connection speed of around 7 mbps is fine.
Business thrived well before the internet even existed.
Business interoperability can be improved hugely with NBN whereas fast railway will be minute in comparison.
Discussion is just another form of debate
You say you're not trying to win but then you also trotted out this piece of nonsense: "So we can download high def movies quicker?".NBN is infrastructure.
Businesses have soared since the introduction of the internet.
There's more to business than moving people around quickly.
Last edited by MartinLuther; Aug 4th 2010 at 2:27 am.
Aug 4th 2010, 2:30 am
#310
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Posts: 9,316
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Even with a rail system as fast as France you'd still be looking at 6 hours from Mel-Syd.
I can't see it pulling too many business travellers off the planes.
I can't see it pulling too many business travellers off the planes.
Aug 4th 2010, 4:28 am
#311
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Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,442
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
93% is not 100%
Ridiculously cheap is relative to a person's income. Price all comes down to supply and demand, and competition. I don't know where you are getting your figures but just checking the prices they average between $175 - $429 SYD - MEL one way. SYD - BNE $95 - $499 one way.
SYD - MEL/BNE may be one of the busiest routes but that does not mean anything about the size of Australia's domestic aviation industry as a whole. There are lot's of international carriers that fly those routes as well. Compared to aviation in the US, UK or EU, aviation in Australia is virtually non-existent. In fact, many Aussie pilots have to move overseas just to get a job.
Teleconferencing is no substitue for a face to face meeting and it never will be. As far as business information systems are concerned, well how do SAP and Oracle survive on the existing infrastructure if these kinds of systems can only be carried on the NBN?
I was referring to the home consumer with 7mbps. That should have been blindingly obvious.
Flying in Australia is ridiculously cheap! SYD-MLB $59-$159 for 1000km of travel *without any* government subsidies. You are wrong about Australia's aviation status, because of its geography is has some of the most used city pairs in the world with SYD-MEL/BNE.
SYD - MEL/BNE may be one of the busiest routes but that does not mean anything about the size of Australia's domestic aviation industry as a whole. There are lot's of international carriers that fly those routes as well. Compared to aviation in the US, UK or EU, aviation in Australia is virtually non-existent. In fact, many Aussie pilots have to move overseas just to get a job.
You could get a lot of businessmen out of the air with high quality teleconferencing and by giving them access to better business information systems which could only be carried on the NBN.
No, you cannot optimise theses systems on 7mb of ADSL bandwidth because of the nature of the underlying technology. Loss, latency and congestion cannot be designed out of ADSL (or IP) and bandwidth is capped.
Last edited by Deancm_MKII; Aug 4th 2010 at 4:34 am.
Aug 4th 2010, 4:37 am
#312
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Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Last time I checked, availability of 24Mb ADSL2+ in the UK was limited - it was not available in Woldingham (where I used to live), which is inside the M25. It would be interesting to see what the situation is there now. 2 weeks ago there were articles in the papers over there saying that the government wanted to get everyone in the country onto at least 2Mb - which is still very slow.
Aug 4th 2010, 4:50 am
#313
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
They do not use ADSL as fibre is a lot more competitive and all over. There are also many times more links to the US and Europe.
Press per gigabyte is also much much lower.
Speedtest tends to be used by home users testing their ADSL.
Press per gigabyte is also much much lower.
Speedtest tends to be used by home users testing their ADSL.
Aug 4th 2010, 4:53 am
#314
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Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
Discussion: an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination by argument, comment, etc.
Debate: 1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
NBN is infrastructure.
Businesses have soared since the introduction of the internet.
There's more to business than moving people around quickly.
There's more to business than moving people around quickly.
I know there's more to business than just moving people around.
Aug 4th 2010, 4:55 am
#315
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Re: The Sensible Australian Election Thread
I've driven from Melb to Sydney in a car in 9 hours. A high speed train could easily do it in 3.