In my opinion, it's not the Aussie way for many Aussies, just like it's not the English way for many English people.

its the same with the english. aussies always say its in jest. but when they work out i'm scottish you should hear the hatred towards the english that i have heard. i have even found myself defending the english

Indefensible.

So what do they say. To be honest, I am a trifle negative about a particular portion of my own countrymen myself.

Some are so plainly excrutiating..as even a cursory viewing of any real-life documentary that comes out of the UK these days shows..

its not what they say really, its the way they say it

I work for Aussie Post in their customer service division and I probably deal with, on average a couple of people a week complaining about "the bloody Indian/chinese person running the local POffice and that they should learn to speak english properly or go back to where they came from!

I think the British have lived with multiculturalism for many years and most people wouldn't dream of making a complaint of this sort, even though I am sure many think it!

You know what, I serously don't know what real people think. I'm not even sure what racism might be. It obviously has to be discrimination but is an inner voice contemplating someone discrimination? I mean we are all different in some shape or form. I haven't heard the word 'Paki' literally in 25 odd years. But I also don't think that the Brits are a bunch of angels. I think Australians and Brits have their own tolerances.

I mean some people look at people who look physically different to themselves - a weak chin perhaps - and think - 'F**k me!'.

If someone found it hard to talk to someone I can't blame fustration. I can also understand someone being uneasy and not knowing much about another culture. As I've said, I find the opinions and attitudes of many British Expats plain bizarre and they are my own countrymen...

I'd single them out long before I started on another tribe of hopefuls..!

That's OK then. Brush it under the carpet! Tis just invective.

Ok so is the main problem with Aussies against Indians is that Indians in particular do not socialise with anyone and cant speak English? Indians coming from India I honestly agree are like that in majority, the same with many Chinese people...

Is that the main dislike towards them?

If a British Indian shows even the Aussie how to drink properly in the pub, he would be OK?

Also I don't mind the odd comment because I can give it better then I get from people, but I just don't want to get beaten up by gangs!

I plan to stay in Sydney.

I find that people are quite quick to f**k off Indians when they complain about jobs on BE. Some comments are borderline racist - even from people I feel would be quick to pull others up. Some major observations:

i) Indians are seen as having bad English. It's not always bad, but even then it can be quite naive. We had one guy who had a nice line in poetic prose..he was looking to succeed the current standing Poet Laureate....everytime a girl left he would send a public email professing his love for her.

ii) Indians are seen as being a tad naive in some places but this can also work to their advantage. I can't claim to be a expert on Indian culture but there is a certain charm in their disposition - but it can also be bloody irritating all at the same time. I had an Indian guy report to me who was so busy bowing and scraping that I almost sent him out for the paper and to do my dhobi and only managed to stop myself in time.

I actually took him under my wing and gave him a bit of a finishing school in how to behave in these parts - over a coffee. Nice bloke. He is now working quite happily in Melbourne and still emails me to thank me for 'putting him right'.

iii) I did find that some of our Indians in another company socialised together but to be fair a lot of the young guys were with them - we didn't because we have wives and children and needed to get home.

iv) If you have reasonable English, can drink in a pub, can ingratiate yourself without bowing and scraping - for want of a better word, are a good bloke - apologies for the terminology - then you'll be fine!

You'll get muppets wherever you go. I lived in London, Sydney, Paris and New York and I've heard racist comments in every one of them aimed at every ethnic class there is. The difference for many English expats moving to Australia is that there's a rich vein of antaognism towards the former motherland that varies from mild ribbing (the old dodgy teeth, soap dodging, whinging cliches) to outright hatred. But it's certainly not an everyday occurence and I suspect the same would be true for anyone from Asia.

That said, yes I think a huge part of the problem is that the Indians don't get out into the wider community as much as they should - self-imposed ghettos if you like. I'm all for keeping language alive, but I strongly believe you should be able to speak the main language of the country you have *chosen* to live in - particularly if you work in any form of service industry such as a shop. Put the shoe on the other foot - how do you think I would be received if I opened a small grocery store in Delhi and stared in puzzlement when my Indian clientelle spoke to me in Hindi?

Anyway - you're as likely to get beaten up by a gang as any born and bred Sydney-sider - you're moving to a large city and large cities by their very nature are more violent places than towns and villages.

cheers for the comments everyone - I'm a lot more comfortable in moving out there now thanks! I'll just learn some advanced martial arts as backup.

On average, people from other countries are rather ignorant of Australia, Australians and Australian culture.

We are isolated, we are way down there at the bottom of the map miles away from anywhere and most of these people rely on the media to tell them what Australia and Australians are like. Unfortunately the media deals in sensationalism and stereotyping and millions of people around the world currently believe that Australians are racist, backwards, uncouth, uncultured, unsophisticated, full of themselves, insular, and all live in a big flat red desert and ride kangaroos to the shops.

Australia is a first world country, one of the most developed nations in the world, and for the most part has a similar culture to the US and UK. A few people need to get over the novelty value of Australia and realise that we are just normal people living on the face of the earth like everyone else, we are not a bunch of redneck weirdos.

I totally agree with you.

Its a shame that Australia is perceived to be a racist country. To be honest with you many people I have spoken to here in London from all backgrounds say to me you will have major problems in socieity and getting a job in OZ because your Indian. They say to me dont go - but not one of them has ever been to OZ!!

Now why are they thinking this? I agree with you its the media - its very powerful they can spin everything. Apart from Murdochs empire many newspapers have got articles saying OZ is dangerous for overseas students! Now this may be partly because it is and partly because they want to keep readers but as an outsider how does one know the proportions?

But the fact is where else am I meant to get information from? I don't know anyone in OZ. That's why I wanted to educate myself by writing this thread to see what its really like from people there. But if I wasn't going to Oz and just read my daily paper like everyone else I would be like and that is what a lot of people here are like.

It is a shame. All members of society gets assaulted domestically and internationally but unfortunately this OZ story is big news globally when in fact happens all around the world. Its a fact of life but this is seem to be unusual when it shouldn't..

To the OP: I wouldn't let it put you off coming here - this is not Poland or Russia where people who aren't white are beaten by cops, gangs and civilians often and for no reason. Foreign students are often disproportionately at risk from assault just because they often work jobs late at night (which means they're likely to be going to and from work on their own) and because they often don't live in the best part of town.

IMHO it is also true that the Indian media (cheap coverage that no reader will disagree with!) and Indian politicians (quick distraction from domestic political ****ups!) have wildly exaggerated the problem.

But Australian social attitudes (especially outside the capital cities) are very staid in some respects and there is a big divide between White Australia and anyone else (whether that's Aboriginals, Torres Strait Islanders, Chinese (who have been here for 100+ years) or anyone else). This was demonstrated by the first post after yours:

See - for that poster, like many Australians - immigrants, Lebanese and Asian Australians aren't "real" Australians at all. Why? Because they're not white. "Australians...are going extinct" [sic - presumably this is another example of an immigrant not bothering to learn English properly] - actually, this is complete nonsense - the Australian population has never been so large. What that poster means is that it's not totally white any more - unless, of course, he's referring to the genocide of Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders...which I really doubt.

When it comes to race and multiculturalism, Australia is about 20 years behind the UK (well...maybe England and Wales - the Scots still consider English people exotic and the only thing the Northern Irish can all agree on is how much they hate Romanians).

No - it's just qualitatively not the same. It's simply not true that Indians/ Pakistanis/ Bangladeshis get the same sort of shit as Scots/ Irish/ English.

But it's probably pointless asking a group of people (like here) who are mostly white Anglophones about whether they've experienced much racism. They're not very likely to!

If you try to imitate being an "Aussie bloke" and don't be yourself, you'll be OK?