Credit Card debt
May 18th 2004, 1:15 pm
#61
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 216
Originally posted by Herman
The basic routine is that the banks will try to collect the debt as much as they can within the confines of their fairly limited processes. They then write the debt off (charge off) and sell to a collection agency. I am currently involved in a project for one of these collection agencies and let me tell you folks, its rapidly growing business. These guys buy whole portfolios of debt from the likes of Barclaycard for something like 5p for every ? of debt, so for a ?0m block of debt they pay ?00k. They then have experts at tracking people down and they are pretty relentless. They will keep on going at you until they can collect something like 10p in the pound from you. Thats all they want, just 10% of the debt's face value will give them a handsome profit across the whole blok of debt they buy. There are numerous large US companies who are very good at finding people, very relentless and very determined to get into the UK market. Be warned.
That's some of the process stuff. I completely agree with Don though - what you are proposing is stealing. Yes its relatively easy to do and you can tell yourself that the credit card companies are immoral blah blah blah but that doesn't change the fact that you will be stealing money that belongs to the shareholders of that bank, which is probably most of us on this forum who have company pension funds. Also as others have pointed out, if it goes tits up in Oz and you have to return, your theft and credit blackmark will result in a punitive mortgage rates for years to come. I would never dream of doing what you are proposing, but lots do it - there are a lot of criminals out there.
The basic routine is that the banks will try to collect the debt as much as they can within the confines of their fairly limited processes. They then write the debt off (charge off) and sell to a collection agency. I am currently involved in a project for one of these collection agencies and let me tell you folks, its rapidly growing business. These guys buy whole portfolios of debt from the likes of Barclaycard for something like 5p for every ? of debt, so for a ?0m block of debt they pay ?00k. They then have experts at tracking people down and they are pretty relentless. They will keep on going at you until they can collect something like 10p in the pound from you. Thats all they want, just 10% of the debt's face value will give them a handsome profit across the whole blok of debt they buy. There are numerous large US companies who are very good at finding people, very relentless and very determined to get into the UK market. Be warned.
That's some of the process stuff. I completely agree with Don though - what you are proposing is stealing. Yes its relatively easy to do and you can tell yourself that the credit card companies are immoral blah blah blah but that doesn't change the fact that you will be stealing money that belongs to the shareholders of that bank, which is probably most of us on this forum who have company pension funds. Also as others have pointed out, if it goes tits up in Oz and you have to return, your theft and credit blackmark will result in a punitive mortgage rates for years to come. I would never dream of doing what you are proposing, but lots do it - there are a lot of criminals out there.
Herman,
I totally agree with you!
Mike......this is what I was talking about.
I doubt you told someone you were off to Oz, (maybe even your Mum), and anyway I bet the postman who delivered your mail from Australia House guesed it too!
All these guys have to do is spend a bit of effort 'asking around', maybe some of your old job, (self employed I know), and someone is gona mention Australia!
But anyway, you know best.
Cheers.
May 18th 2004, 1:46 pm
#62
Visa'd Up Dutch Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: existing in Southampton..
Posts: 272
What a great post! Lots of emotions running high!
As someone who isn't taking a fortune to Oz and has only in the last couple of years bulk payed off student loans etc., I too hope you don't do it. And if you do, well, I hope the sleepless nights or the unknown knock on the door are cumulitively worth more than £10K.
We would all love to run from our debts but its stealing and most of us seem to have a conscience. If it was that easy, more people would do it.
Banking arrangements these days are becoming globally integrated (yes until recently i worked for a bank) and i can check my aussie balance from a UK cashpoint now. Debt can follow you and in your case it just might. Hell, your going to Australia, not Afganistan! Same language, cultural ties, similar banking and credit systems....
As someone who isn't taking a fortune to Oz and has only in the last couple of years bulk payed off student loans etc., I too hope you don't do it. And if you do, well, I hope the sleepless nights or the unknown knock on the door are cumulitively worth more than £10K.
We would all love to run from our debts but its stealing and most of us seem to have a conscience. If it was that easy, more people would do it.
Banking arrangements these days are becoming globally integrated (yes until recently i worked for a bank) and i can check my aussie balance from a UK cashpoint now. Debt can follow you and in your case it just might. Hell, your going to Australia, not Afganistan! Same language, cultural ties, similar banking and credit systems....
May 18th 2004, 5:05 pm
#63
Banned
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Somerly,Perth
Posts: 545
I think you should all get off your moral highhorses!
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
May 18th 2004, 5:35 pm
#64
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Originally posted by pompeywill
I think you should all get off your moral highhorses!
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
I think you should all get off your moral highhorses!
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
You are using an illegal copy of windows???:scared:
Whats the Microsoft piracy hotline number?
May 18th 2004, 7:57 pm
#65
Banned
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,613
Originally posted by pompeywill
I think you should all get off your moral highhorses!
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
I think you should all get off your moral highhorses!
Give the guy a break, he's trying to be honest about his situation and he hasn't done ANYTHING yet.
He is not a thief or a mongrel or what ever else he has been called.
No-one has been hurt or robbed, so who cares what he does with his credit cards.
I expect all of us have done something illegal in the past, maybe bought a TV 'off the back of a lorry' etc.
How many of us are using an illegal copy of windows?????
So lighten up people
No problem with him asking what people think.
It might make him reconsider.
I guess you saw that French film about the bank robbery (bank holiday weekend, dig a tunnel) in Paris where nobody got hurt and they leave a message about freedom and peace, so it was OK? Wrong, old son.
Theft is bad, on a scale of bad things, 3-4 at least.
May 18th 2004, 8:51 pm
#66
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 11
Well I just want firstly to thank everyone for their comments. I've been following everyone’s posts and thinking a lot about this. At the end of the day I haven't started anything, I just wanted to know where I would've stood if we decided to stop paying etc.
I've now decided to spend the last 3 months we have here doing as much overtime as possible, and am gonna try my best to clear as much debt as possible. Then I'll see about taking the remaining with us ?!?! if an option.
Once again, thank you all very much for your opinions and different slants on it all.
Cheers
Mike
I've now decided to spend the last 3 months we have here doing as much overtime as possible, and am gonna try my best to clear as much debt as possible. Then I'll see about taking the remaining with us ?!?! if an option.
Once again, thank you all very much for your opinions and different slants on it all.
Cheers
Mike
May 19th 2004, 1:37 am
#67
Not here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,621
Originally posted by Mike-33
Well I just want firstly to thank everyone for their comments. I've been following everyone’s posts and thinking a lot about this. At the end of the day I haven't started anything, I just wanted to know where I would've stood if we decided to stop paying etc.
I've now decided to spend the last 3 months we have here doing as much overtime as possible, and am gonna try my best to clear as much debt as possible. Then I'll see about taking the remaining with us ?!?! if an option.
Once again, thank you all very much for your opinions and different slants on it all.
Cheers
Mike
Well I just want firstly to thank everyone for their comments. I've been following everyone’s posts and thinking a lot about this. At the end of the day I haven't started anything, I just wanted to know where I would've stood if we decided to stop paying etc.
I've now decided to spend the last 3 months we have here doing as much overtime as possible, and am gonna try my best to clear as much debt as possible. Then I'll see about taking the remaining with us ?!?! if an option.
Once again, thank you all very much for your opinions and different slants on it all.
Cheers
Mike
Fraud
While fraud is an old crime, technological, social, demographic and economic developments have brought about changes in the form fraud takes and how it is perpetrated. In simple terms, fraud involves the use of dishonest or deceitful conduct in order to obtain some unjust advantage over another (Smith and Grabosky 1998).
Fraud is often regarded as a modern day crime, but it has been around for a very long time. Plotting the trend of the extent of fraud over this century is not a useful exercise, as many frauds are not recorded, and any attempt to suggest that the number of frauds per 100,000 population has risen or fallen is based on shaky data.
Some attribute the beginnings of fraud to the Industrial Revolution, but there seems to be little reason for thinking that it was not around before then, as any sort of trade or dealings between people seems to offer the opportunity to commit fraud.
In the early days of colonial Australia, the shortage of currency and the resultant use of promissory notes, sometimes thousands of pounds worth, gave opportunity for fraud. Other simpler cases include one Emily Syster, who was a 'begging letter imposter' some time in the early 1840s. She wrote to various prominent figures, including the Bishop, under different guises-as an old officer, a pregnant woman, a ruined tradesman. The fraud was eventually detected through her handwriting. Other examples include false insurance claims, such as claiming for the theft of four watches when in fact only two were stolen (Smith and Grabosky 1998).
In the early days of settlement in Australia, fraud was facilitated by communication methods as it is today-only in those days it was its slowness rather than the electronic rapidity of today. When one Benjamin Boyd borrowed money in England ostensibly to establish the Royal Bank of Australia in 1839, it was very difficult for his creditors to keep track of how their money was being used. Boyd must have been quite a persuasive person as he was permitted by the other directors of the Royal Bank to set off for Australia with the money that had been invested in the bank, and was granted a loan for his own use. Very little of the money was in fact used in banking operations. Boyd spent most of the money on establishing a shipping business, investing in whaling works, the setting up of a wool washing dam on Sydney Harbour and the building of Boyd Town on the southern coast of New South Wales. Apart from being able to conceal his business failures through false reports, Boyd's fraudulent activities were assisted by the length of time it took for communication to take place between one side of the world and the other (Sykes 1988).
By the end of the twentieth century, expanding computer literacy has increased the number of prospective fraud offenders, while new technologies allow easier and cheaper access to a much larger pool of prospective victims. At the end of the century, in addition to old fashioned scams we have seen evidence of Identity-related Fraud, Internet Fraud, Credit Card Fraud, Advance Fee Fraud, and Nursing Home Fraud, to mention just a few types.
These few types provide an indication of the range and complexity of dishonesty offences that come to the attention of the police in Australia. There are, of course, many others that are either not discovered or not reported. These cases also show that fraud is invariably complex, and not possible to be described in detail here.
However, many fraud types involve an international element, and rely upon modern technologies for their commission. The proliferation of electronic funds transfer systems has enhanced the risk that such transactions will be intercepted and funds diverted. Most of the large scale electronic funds transfer frauds which have been committed have involved the interception or alteration of electronic data messages transmitted from bank computers.
It would be reasonable to say that most of the fraud types that existed at the beginning of the century were still with us at the end, but new technologies, and processes of globalisation, have vastly expanded the range of frauds that exist at the end of the century.
May 19th 2004, 1:51 am
#69
Not here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,621
Originally posted by Mike-33
I C
I C
May 19th 2004, 2:06 am
#71
Not here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,621
Originally posted by Mike-33
gdgd
gdgd
May 19th 2004, 4:47 pm
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Credit Card debt
Hi all
I have just come across this post and as we are awaiting a decision to emigrate from the uk i would like to bring something to your attention. There is 2 attitudes on here as to pay up or screw them. I myself take the 2nd view as i am currently paying all of my loans, debts etc to make sure i am sorted when god willing i get the go ahead.
Have any of you heard of the RULE OF 78 as this is the banks way of screwing you over because you pay a loan off early.
I hadn,t thought of not paying them but it is rather tempting.
The rule of 78 means that when you pay early you pay 12 78ths of your payments in interest on month 1, 11 78ths month 2 and so on.
This means i will have to pay 2000 pounds more interest than if i paid the loan 0ver the agreed amount. I wouldn't normally have a problem with this other than none of the loan companies in the UK declare that they do this. What they say is we calculate a settle ment figure with a formula. No matter how much you ask beg scream at them they won't admit that they use the RULE OF 78.
The government are at the moment discussing outlawing this as it is a penalty for paying early but companies can deny taking penalties as it is just a different way of working out what you owe. My attitude is this is a form of robbery as they don't declare it even in your loan contract. One or 2 banks don't use it and i believe the abbey is one of them. Egg which is according to them the internet bank with no hidden charges do use this!
So for those of you who scream that you should honour your debts how about the companies honouring the customer and not hiding there high interest rates behind loop holes in the law.
I will be paying my debt although i begrude it as i don't want anything to ruin our new life down under but i can totally understand anyone who does and i hope they get away with it.
THE FIM38 debbies husband
May 19th 2004, 11:41 pm
#74
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Going home at last-now we know where that is !
Posts: 1,040
You'd be surprised as to how things may turn around-be careful. However I know people that did it and it was fine as they are very happy here. When you apply for a credit card here they can not checck your UK details at all so it would not affect any applications here at all. I am sure they would write it off completely-it is just if you want or need to go back to the UK. Life has a funny way of working out-you may not be here forever so be warned!
Originally posted by Mike-33
Would you ever return to this pathetic country ??
Mike the dodge.
Would you ever return to this pathetic country ??
Mike the dodge.
May 20th 2004, 5:10 am
#75
High in the Dandenongs
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Listening to Puffing Billy
Posts: 9,183
Re: Credit Card debt
Originally posted by debbiea34
Hi all
I have just come across this post and as we are awaiting a decision to emigrate from the uk i would like to bring something to your attention. There is 2 attitudes on here as to pay up or screw them. I myself take the 2nd view as i am currently paying all of my loans, debts etc to make sure i am sorted when god willing i get the go ahead.
Have any of you heard of the RULE OF 78 as this is the banks way of screwing you over because you pay a loan off early.
I hadn,t thought of not paying them but it is rather tempting.
The rule of 78 means that when you pay early you pay 12 78ths of your payments in interest on month 1, 11 78ths month 2 and so on.
This means i will have to pay 2000 pounds more interest than if i paid the loan 0ver the agreed amount. I wouldn't normally have a problem with this other than none of the loan companies in the UK declare that they do this. What they say is we calculate a settle ment figure with a formula. No matter how much you ask beg scream at them they won't admit that they use the RULE OF 78.
The government are at the moment discussing outlawing this as it is a penalty for paying early but companies can deny taking penalties as it is just a different way of working out what you owe. My attitude is this is a form of robbery as they don't declare it even in your loan contract. One or 2 banks don't use it and i believe the abbey is one of them. Egg which is according to them the internet bank with no hidden charges do use this!
So for those of you who scream that you should honour your debts how about the companies honouring the customer and not hiding there high interest rates behind loop holes in the law.
I will be paying my debt although i begrude it as i don't want anything to ruin our new life down under but i can totally understand anyone who does and i hope they get away with it.
THE FIM38 debbies husband
Hi all
I have just come across this post and as we are awaiting a decision to emigrate from the uk i would like to bring something to your attention. There is 2 attitudes on here as to pay up or screw them. I myself take the 2nd view as i am currently paying all of my loans, debts etc to make sure i am sorted when god willing i get the go ahead.
Have any of you heard of the RULE OF 78 as this is the banks way of screwing you over because you pay a loan off early.
I hadn,t thought of not paying them but it is rather tempting.
The rule of 78 means that when you pay early you pay 12 78ths of your payments in interest on month 1, 11 78ths month 2 and so on.
This means i will have to pay 2000 pounds more interest than if i paid the loan 0ver the agreed amount. I wouldn't normally have a problem with this other than none of the loan companies in the UK declare that they do this. What they say is we calculate a settle ment figure with a formula. No matter how much you ask beg scream at them they won't admit that they use the RULE OF 78.
The government are at the moment discussing outlawing this as it is a penalty for paying early but companies can deny taking penalties as it is just a different way of working out what you owe. My attitude is this is a form of robbery as they don't declare it even in your loan contract. One or 2 banks don't use it and i believe the abbey is one of them. Egg which is according to them the internet bank with no hidden charges do use this!
So for those of you who scream that you should honour your debts how about the companies honouring the customer and not hiding there high interest rates behind loop holes in the law.
I will be paying my debt although i begrude it as i don't want anything to ruin our new life down under but i can totally understand anyone who does and i hope they get away with it.
THE FIM38 debbies husband
