Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
Feb 26th 2007, 3:52 am
#47
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Feb 26th 2007, 3:54 am
#49
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Feb 26th 2007, 6:15 am
#51
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
I hate to disagree with you mate, but IMHO that is simply not true.
We suffered the terrible effects of two World Wars (including the destruction of Darwin by Japanese bombers) and several pointless conflicts (including Korea and Vietnam). I saw more war cenotaphs during three months in Adelaide (that was in 2003; just before I emigrated) than I've seen during three years in the UK.
We celebrate ANZAC Day and Remembrance Day; we have songs and poems dedicated to our fallen, and the wars in which we fought. Many Australians travel to Gallipoli for the annual memorial service. I've never heard of any Poms doing the same (though I do recall something about a few Pommy ex-soldiers visiting Flanders at some stage).
With all of this in mind, I don't see how anyone could say that we are "far more pacifist or rather, less war-aware", and I don't see how our view of our own army is an indication of our attitude to war (whether for better or worse).
I think you'll find that Australians view their army through pragmatic eyes - not pacifist spectacles. We realise that our armed forces are tiny by global standards, and we usually end serving as support troops for the larger nations (such as the UK and US). Military service is not generally regarded as a career option (as it is in the UK, which IMHO has the most disciplined and professional army in the world) and the Australian army is too young to be associated with centuries-old victories and historic victories.
Consequently, there is little sense in glamorising the Australian war machine.
We suffered the terrible effects of two World Wars (including the destruction of Darwin by Japanese bombers) and several pointless conflicts (including Korea and Vietnam). I saw more war cenotaphs during three months in Adelaide (that was in 2003; just before I emigrated) than I've seen during three years in the UK.
We celebrate ANZAC Day and Remembrance Day; we have songs and poems dedicated to our fallen, and the wars in which we fought. Many Australians travel to Gallipoli for the annual memorial service. I've never heard of any Poms doing the same (though I do recall something about a few Pommy ex-soldiers visiting Flanders at some stage).
With all of this in mind, I don't see how anyone could say that we are "far more pacifist or rather, less war-aware", and I don't see how our view of our own army is an indication of our attitude to war (whether for better or worse).
I think you'll find that Australians view their army through pragmatic eyes - not pacifist spectacles. We realise that our armed forces are tiny by global standards, and we usually end serving as support troops for the larger nations (such as the UK and US). Military service is not generally regarded as a career option (as it is in the UK, which IMHO has the most disciplined and professional army in the world) and the Australian army is too young to be associated with centuries-old victories and historic victories.
Consequently, there is little sense in glamorising the Australian war machine.
Feb 26th 2007, 6:32 am
#52
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
FWIW, the "Poms betrayed us and deliberately used ANZACs as cannon fodder" nonsense is a relatively modern spin on Gallipoli (usually dragged out by the pro-republic propagandists) and one to which I do not subscribe. No-one with half a brain could possibly believe such a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
Feb 26th 2007, 6:37 am
#53
(It's not my real name)
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ilukapool. WA
Posts: 12,467
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
I bet a lot of pommie migrants don't know the Aussies were in 'Nam too.
Feb 26th 2007, 6:45 am
#54
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Feb 26th 2007, 8:02 am
#57
Livin it large
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 533
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
FWIW, the "Poms betrayed us and deliberately used ANZACs as cannon fodder" nonsense is a relatively modern spin on Gallipoli (usually dragged out by the pro-republic propagandists) and one to which I do not subscribe. No-one with half a brain could possibly believe such a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
Regards to why Brits have never heard of Gallipoli, I guess there were bigger and bloodier battles closer to home like the Somme.
Feb 26th 2007, 9:02 am
#58
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia - formerly Portsmouth UK
Posts: 938
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
Unfortunately I think you'll find that a lot of Brits have never heard of the Somme either! The teaching and awareness of history in the UK is a national disgrace.
Feb 26th 2007, 9:09 am
#59
I'm now an Aussie too!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2006
Location: 'Home by the Sea' Elanora
Posts: 5,030
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
It seems i opened a bit of a can of worms here!! That was not my intention, i was just trying to find out what celebrations happened on these days as they fell on my childrens birthdays!!!!
I was aware about Anzac day just wondered how it was marked.
Sorry for any ill feeling caused............
C x
I was aware about Anzac day just wondered how it was marked.
Sorry for any ill feeling caused............
C x
Feb 26th 2007, 9:17 am
#60
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Re: Australian 'Holiday Days'...........
FWIW, the "Poms betrayed us and deliberately used ANZACs as cannon fodder" nonsense is a relatively modern spin on Gallipoli (usually dragged out by the pro-republic propagandists) and one to which I do not subscribe. No-one with half a brain could possibly believe such a ludicrous conspiracy theory.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
Gallipoli was lost as a result of inadequate preparation, incompetent leadership and slavish adherence to traditional methods; it was not lost due to any desire of the British to sacrifice the ANZACs in place of their own men. The very idea is laughable.
British soldiers fought like heroes and died in their thousands at Gallipoli. It is shameful to belittle their contribution by implying (or suggesting) that the ANZACs bore the brunt of the battle, or were deliberately pushed into the front line as human shields for their British allies. WWI was fought under the Clauswitzian doctrine of attrition; all men were seen as expendable, regardless of nationality.
Wikipedia has an accurate, dispassionate account of Gallipoli, which I would recommend to anyone. You can find it here.
On a related note, I never cease to be amazed by the number of Poms who've never heard of the ANZACs or Gallipoli. I had to explain it to my work colleagues last year; some of them weren't even aware that Australia had fought in the World Wars.
My own take on it briefly; the idea was an excellent concept, failing only by poor communication and lack of naval support. Had the Fleet Admiral provided that necessary support the war in Europe could/would have been shortened greatly.