Originally Posted by Grayling

So what caused Sydney harbour to become one of the most polluted waterways in the world?...was that overpopulation as well?

Never any smog in Australian cities?

Originally Posted by Watt Dabney

I have been following this thread with interest, mostly because my home town is Kidderminster which is near where ezzie is and also cause I'm just plain nosey!!!

Its a shame a bit of a bun fight has ensued on this thread and wonder if maybe because people are trying so hard to convince themselves that either Uk or Oz is better than the other that maybe you are missing another possible reason for the differences in expats children and the resident children of the country in which you reside.

We have been away from the Uk for 7yrs, 6 of those yrs in NZ and 1 yr in Oz. Our children were 7 & 4 when we 1st moved, we have no family outside the Uk and we have never been back. We have however encountered many fresh of the boat and holidaying UK kids, and I have noticed a difference, just as I have noticed some difference with native Oz and NZ kids, and I have a sort of theory which I feel really applies to families who emigrate with kids under 10.

When you move countries you move away from everything you know, people, areas, places. You don't realise how much of a gut instinct you have about your hometown, which is often based on generations of knowledge that you either have yourself or you can tap into from reliable sources such as family and friends.You know which streets/families are rough etc which gives you the reasurance to loosen the reigns and take some risks with your kids freedoms when growing up.
When you emigrate you know noone you know nothing of their history, the areas history, the schools history. Requests from your children for playdates and sleepovers are met with much more caution as you know nothing of the families you are entrusting your children to. Family childcare is no longer available so its do it yourself or commercial care and leaving your kids with a babysitter to go out is a rare occasion and only when you are sure you have found one you can trust. Also every free weekend is spent exploring your new evironment as a family, so bar school, your kids spend most of their time with parents and siblings, becoming a very close knit unit.
I feel that esp but not exclusivley kids that migrate before 10yrs become very family oriented and the process of friend making for them often involves input from their parents in trying to guide them to find good friends. Over time they get quite good at quickly identifying both the good and the bad element in their school and often gravitate to the good kids as they relate better to them. I have certainly seen this in my son who is on his 3rd school in 2 new countries. There have been times when he has encountered holidaying Uk kids and he was quite shocked at their antics and disregard for their parents rules and guidance.

So what I am trying to say if you can get the gist of my ramblings is that I reckon its not Oz or UK kids that are overtly bad/good, but I do think kids who migrated young do seem more family oriented and concious of the effect actions/behaviours can have on the family unit and are less willing to rock the family boat as this is their main sense of security and belonging.

You may all think this is twaddle, but its a different angle on the situation at least.

Originally Posted by Budawang

I'd just like to say I've found your comments to be extraordinarily well-balanced and fair. You seem to be looking at both countries as objectively as possible. As an Aussie (albeit one that has lived half his life overseas), I don't feel offended by the less than positive remarks you make about my country because they are obviously honestly felt and I agree with some of them. There are things that could be better in Australia and I think you have put your finger on some of them.

I agree there are a couple of serially negative posters and I hope they won't put you off posting. I have a hard time understanding those people who seem to hate living in Australia but continue to live here when many of them could move back to the UK, if they really wanted to, but nonetheless choose to stay, claiming to be miserable. What a waste. I respect those that didn't like living here and have left.

My view is that life is what you make. I strongly believe anyone with the right attitude can have a happy and fulfilled life in almost any democratic, developed country. Maybe some of these serially negative people should spend some time in an impoverished third world country like I have done. They might realise how self-indulgent and spoilt they really are.

Originally Posted by Budawang

I sail frequently on Sydney Harbour. To claim it is one of the most polluted harbours in the world is a joke.

Originally Posted by Budawang

I'd just like to say I've found your comments to be extraordinarily well-balanced and fair. You seem to be looking at both countries as objectively as possible. As an Aussie (albeit one that has lived half his life overseas), I don't feel offended by the less than positive remarks you make about my country because they are obviously honestly felt and I agree with some of them. There are things that could be better in Australia and I think you have put your finger on some of them.

I agree there are a couple of serially negative posters and I hope they won't put you off posting. I have a hard time understanding those people who seem to hate living in Australia but continue to live here when many of them could move back to the UK, if they really wanted to, but nonetheless choose to stay, claiming to be miserable. What a waste. I respect those that didn't like living here and have left.

My view is that life is what you make. I strongly believe anyone with the right attitude can have a happy and fulfilled life in almost any democratic, developed country. Maybe some of these serially negative people should spend some time in an impoverished third world country like I have done. They might realise how self-indulgent and spoilt they really are.

Originally Posted by Fleaflyfloflum

That is correct. But you say you left a city (Birmingham) and moved to a rural area. I would argue that the same contentment could be found moving to a rural area, or just any area of the UK that may suit a person better. It is just a case of finding what suits you. But saying that, if being where you are now ticks your boxes thats fine too.
I come from London and lived very hectic lifestyle back then. I have been blown away by the lovely village community my daughter has moved to.
I am pretty certain Ezzie would love it too, but i doubt she will ever listen to anything i have to say.

I feel theperception of Britain as being worse than Australia is due to the fact that people live in much closer proximity to each other due to less space. All of the bad things that happen there happen here in Aus, but communities are often more spread out so it probably seems less in your face, but come to inner Sydney and it is no different from London.
At the end of the day, we need to choose to live where we feel happiest.

Originally Posted by cricket1

Well it's about to start getting better by the looks

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...clampdown.html

Bit late but better late than never.

And welfare recipients are now going to have to work for their benefits. Can't find the link but it's on the BBC news.

Having spent some time on the Midlands forums recently just checking how the locals are finding things before I move home and business back to the UK, the locals are keeping their chin up and are a basically happy bunch all rallying round and keeping the faith that Britain always comes through tough times. Their daily life doesn't seem to have changed that much.

And the stockmarket is starting to head up again, Obama's got some good ideas for the economy and climate change. It's all getting better out there.

Those who sent me a PM about local forums, just type in whichever area you're after and add the word 'forum'. Sorry I haven't replied, busy with business in the wind down for Christmas.

Originally Posted by Jules Europe

I have actually been out lunching in a very good Chinese buffet restaurant but see that since I have been away, that the once productive thread has now degenerated into a hub of smutty comments and sexual inuendos............I suppose its no surprise though, as this is what happens when a pack of sexually deprived females get together

Originally Posted by LouiseD

Flea you are spot on here

We moved to Oz to try to escape the problems that we thought were unique to the UK. Despite living in a nice Melbourne suburb we found that kids still smashed in the local bus stop, still stole cars and went joyriding, graffitied everywhere, and got stoned and drunk. We returned to the UK but moved just 15 minutes from where we used to live. What a different life - it's like living in a different world!! Unfortunately it took us to move across the world and back again to find our perfect place.

We've been back now almost two years now and I can honestly say that every day I thank God I came home

Originally Posted by St.Georges Girl

I'm in no 'pack', but I am sexually deprived..........

Originally Posted by Jules Europe

Think you will find my contributions with constructive criticism and observations along with speaking my mind are often the norm on this forum and should not be confused with the occasional argument that takes place. If in doubt you will see that I gave the OP for example on "City and Culture in the UK" thread some observations based on my experience etc and look to do that on most threads. The heat as you call it, follows me and not the other way around, there is a difference. If you insist. I suppose if one speaks their mind on here then they should expect the heat to follow them. In regards to this thread maybe it was different. Like a lot of people on this thread, before participating I really enjoyed reading Ezzie`s postings and still do, her argument at times is flawed but I still enjoyed reading it and fully support her right to tell it how she sees it. As for people not picking on Ezzie, well I think you`ll find one of the mods thought so "Posting 262" I then decided that Ezzie should have some support, so as she wouldn`t stop writing and luckily she hasn`t, just look at the amount of hits this thread has had!!!!! So a lot of people are reading her stuff. If a few eggs had to be broken in defending her right to express her opinion on here then so be it, I make no excuse for defending the underdog in this scenario as bullying shouldn`t be toleratedNo it shouldn't and that's what the mod's are here for, but I am sure Ezzie is big enough to defend herself, as she has done quite eloquently in the past.

Of course part of the forum`s daily life is for people to challenge stuff they don`t agree with and this doesn`t make them extremist or disruptive in any way and of course its creates healthy debate. Problem occurs though, is when these people start to take these comments as personal attacks, not personal as against themselves but more toward their country of origin or their country of destination etc. Believe me nationalism and embitterment are powerful tools to unite them. What then takes place is a loose union with fellow minded individuals and what`s now being called a pack, quickly starts to to form. As for "The Pack" they quickly become an unsavory rabble on a lot of threads here and usually cut down any opinion that they don`t like and are quite often abusive and offensive when doing it. They are either Pro country or anti country depending on which thread you are writing on............if in doubt go onto a forum and in a matter of time they will reveal themselves.

Originally Posted by northernbird

FFS, I have taken back my comment and I shall say sorry again. Let it go now.

Originally Posted by St.Georges Girl

What are you on about? I have replied to Jules thread, read it and then maybe you will owe me an apology.

Originally Posted by northernbird

The continued use of the word 'pack' is what I am referring to. As the original user of this controversial word I have apologised for using it. I can't do anymore than say sorry. I will apologise again, sorry

Originally Posted by St.Georges Girl

OK, but I only used it because Jules had and I was replying to his post as a joke. There was no need to get nasty.