Bermudashorts

At the time of the campaigns, here on the ground there was no discussion of hard Brexit, soft Brexit or somewhere in the middle Brexit. It was just Brexit and my understanding was that we were voting to leave or remain in the EU. This seemed perfectly clear from my ballot paper anyway. I am not sure why that is only now being be called "hard Brexit" by some.

bcworld

Well...are there countries which are not members of the EU which are members of the EEA or single market? Yes there are. Was there discussion during the debate about being like the Norways or the Switzerland? Yes there was. I agree with you, the vote was to leave the EU...everything else is up for discussion.

Amazulu

Sure, and I'm not saying that there should be no debate. There should but some remainers. particularly on here, want the whole exercise to be ignored because they don't agree with it - which is ridiculous in a democracy

Personally I think the UK should go for an EEA type arrangement. Completely retreating across the channel would be stupid and dangerous

OzTennis

So was it clear to you on your ballot paper that it was a complete withdrawal from the EU or a partial withdrawal from the EU? Very few people understood how complicated it was going to be to leave the EU and that there could be a hard or soft exit. The ballot paper certainly didn't say do you want to leave the EU but retain membership of the single market? Norway is an example of a country which isn't a member but is part of the single market.

We're now finding that politicians and public servants are being left to thrash out the details. The notion that parliament doesn't have a say in the terms (as David Davis wants) is ludicrous, particularly in view of what we were voting on not being crystal clear. Sure, one can interpret what being out meant - but I can interpret something different.

OzTennis

Well this remainer is arguing for a soft Brexit which is my democratic right surely? The democratic result was to leave the EU which wasn't clearly stated before the vote exactly what that meant and it is no clearer now what this is going to entail. It wasn't a simple case of trigger Article 50 and 2 years later bingo we're out. Out of what? Still in what? These are the issues to thrash out and debate now. I still think a lot of people were voting on do you want to control immigration into the UK.

Amazulu

Did you really read my post? This is exactly what I said




You have this knack of arguing with yourself

OzTennis

Yes, what I have read from you a multitude of times in this thread is that Brexit it is, get on with it, no discussion, remain didn't win, get over etc with the default that this is democracy. What we don't want is a democratic vote and then a dictatorship on the interpretation and implementation of the vote.

OzTennis

Sturgeon tells May she's 'not bluffing' over referendum - BBC News

Beoz

Would you prefer the people, the majority, those who voted for Brexit, to have control of how this pans out?

Garbatellamike

Methinks she's bluffing despite what she claims.

GarryP

???

Champing at the bit is probably a better description. It seems that May is making a right pig's ear of the whole brexit mess she put her hand up to take on.

In reality Scotland, N Ireland & Wales didn't vote to leave the EU, and are buggered if they are going to let those English force them into it. If May pushes ahead with pushing the suicide button, they will leave the UK. London might too. And that, in it's own right, basically kills what's left.

I just don't see how May has a valid route that includes activating article 50. In practical terms her only move is to threaten it to get concessions out of the EU (which doesn't appear to be working) and forever put off its invocation to a 'far future' when the EU falls apart anyway.

If they had a wonderful plan about how they were going to revitalise the UK, and that that was actively impossible within the EU, then OK. As it is ...

scrubbedexpat098

They'd be merely changing the recipient of their begging bowls, I doubt a beleagured EU would entertain negotiations with Sturgeon. It does make me chuckle how they all hate the English, but love English money.

Garbatellamike

Some of that is right.....

I think it's quite straight forward really.

May triggers article 50 and then after 2 years of fraught and tortuous negotiations the UK leaves the EU.

Once that has happened things in the UK have changed enough that it is entirely reasonable to rerun the Scottish referendum.

I suspect the SNP then lose again but if they do pull off a surprise win then there are a further 2-10 years of tortuous negotiations before Scotland separates from the UK.

Scotland can then start accession talks with the EU, which will be even more difficult given the Spanish dimension.

WALES VOTED FOR BREXIT as you probably know....Just to refesh your memory:

Scotland 62 in 38 out
Wales 47 in 53 out
Eng 47 in 53 out
NI 56 in 44 out

Garbatellamike

Not all of them just the vocal minority as the latest polls show no significant change from the last Scottish referendum result.

Amazulu

I agree

She's playing a dangerous game