ljaw2002uk

Apology accepted.

Kaffy Mintcake

While it doesn't relate to the poll question, as we've gotten into a bit of discussion over healthcare coverage and the growing gap between the rich and poor in the US, I thought I'd share this letter. I'm sure many of you have read it, but it summarizes my opinion exactly.

Open Letter to that 53 Guy

As for healthcare, I don't understand the opposition to mandatory health insurance with subsidies for those who cannot afford coverage. After all, insurance for driving a car isn't optional - you could get into an accident and hurt someone else. Why is healthcare coverage not required (and made accessible) for everyone? Any one of us could become ill or be hit by a bus tomorrow.

As a side note - not all MBAs are bad. That's a bit like saying everyone who works in business is evil ... as the degree is a dime a dozen nowadays.

retzie

Right, yeah, the problem is simply not having chosen a language-based major... As it happens, one particular kid I had in mind was also going amazingly badly in his general ed writing courses. Nevertheless, I don't think I've ever seen someone so focused and determined. Unfortunately for him, a whole host of factors meant his college dream swiftly ended. I very much hope he has kept the spirit and pursued something more suitable (outside of academic learning). It would be easy for him to have been utterly crushed by the cold reality that 'the dream' conveniently avoids.

Genuine question: do you believe everyone should to go to college?

Squirrel

Of course \the situation in America is totally different, where they want college just for an office job. But here in the UK that topic is discussed a lot too. Remember Tony Blair and his 'Education, education, education?' He wanted 50% of school leavers to go to university to get Bachelor degrees.

I'm sorry but as only a small proportion of jobs require a degree, that scenario (more or less true now in the UK) is causing an awful lot of kids disappointment when you get 500 people chasing every graduate job and most end up doing a job where a degree is not required (heck A levels aren't requited).

Scotz

[QUOTE=Sugarmooma;9754420]I must be really dumb, I didn't understand this at all[/]

Yes indeed... Composing on an iPhone involves autocorrect and unless you check before you send strange things happen

It should read:

"We are not responsible for the bad choices of other people. We can take a horse to water but we can't make it drink."

If you didn't understand the content .. what I meant was that you could put anyone in college and give them all the career counseling you like but if they choose a degree that they have no aptitude for then it is their bad choice that causes them to fail and nobody's fault but their own.

scrubbedexpat097

You know that really is not true, unless you live in a totally different world than me. College is encouraged but a basic office job is given with a high school graduation or even a GED...

[QUOTE=Scotz;9754956]
Thank you...that's clearer

Xebedee

Your (other) prev. post summarised a thought-process regarding higher education which I completely agree with (I'm familiar with what I've heard called the "curse of competancy").

Absolutely not.

Another question:
What can you do about it when American society does not value "ordinary"?

retzie

I'm not sure what sort of people you know, but choosing an appropriate major (assisted or otherwise) is not all it takes to get through college. Why do you think going to college actually means anything? If anyone could do it, all a degree would signal is that you are 'just anyone'. (I am talking about The College Degree generically. Though, even with specialist knowledge, much of it is still learnt on the job.) Just to be clear, I don't think what a degree means is 'you are smarter'; rather, that you have the capacity and disposition to function within a regulated framework. Some of the smartest people I know dropped out because of the tedium and disinterest in institutional discipline.

To a certain extent, borderline types can be dragged through college backwards, but to what end? Would they not be better served by doing something to which they are better suited? There are vast, essential skills that exist outside of the academic sphere; I don't know why we would seek to railroad people away from them.

In my utopia, everyone would have access to the education best suited to their aptitudes, values and dreams. They would also have access to independent advice about how to best identify, evaluate and balance their aptitudes, values and dreams. For someone who fundamentally values learning and education, the number of kids I see who are doing a degree because they 'should' in a major that is 'best' is very depressing. They do not connect with the material, chase grades rather than knowledge, and, more importantly, produce an insipid atmosphere of drudgery that alienates those who actually do value learning.

The idea that everyone should go to college and its cousin 'everyone should have a bigger house, car and more stuff' is one manifestation of the American mentality with which I will never identify. I do not understand the aspiration for a homogeneous society: we are all different, with different values and skills. Some people judge their 'success' in life according to status of job and money; others are blissfully happy with a job that lets them leave on the dot, go home and be a wonderful parent/artist/volunteer. I don't know why one would seek to impose their own dreams on another.

SadInStates

Well said Retzie.

Scotz

I know all kinds of people from all levels of academic achievement. I am the first person in my whole family ever to go to college. It may not mean a lot to some but it sure does to me but I do not consider myself any smarter than anyone else. I am under no illusion that the only two things I learned at college were the ability to think and debate critically and the ability to research stuff in an effective manner. The benefit is that I have an improved chance of getting short listed for an interview.

I work in IT and co workers with Microsoft and Cisco certs are often more highly valued than a new computer science graduate. A fact that many of the new grads are somewhat miffed to learn! I have no argument with this statement at all but will say that when it comes to subsequent promotions the graduate will usually have a better shot. I have seen that happen over and over. Degrees are all about marketability and graduates are better positioned.


I think This last part of your thinking is the most interesting. Parents always want their offspring to do better than they did and will usually push their kids towards more marketable degrees. Some kids will defy them and some will comply and those who comply may be in programs that would not be their first choice. Most will buckle down and some will not be able to survive.. I do not believe that the percentage who can't cope is that high.

If degrees are all about marketability then for sure a degree in medieval history is not going to be as marketable as a degree in law even if the skills learned are pretty similar. I believe that kids and parents are generally in agreement that they want the best. I believe, as i suspect you do, that in a small percentage it may be the wrong choice to pursue law when your passion is history.
I don't agree however that the ultimate aim is a big house or a fast car.. I just think parents want the best for their kids and the kids want to please their parents.

Squirrel

LOL I actually got offered a place at Kings College London for a degree in Medieval Archaeology, which I chose purely because I was interested in the subject. I got the required A level grades but stupidly chose a Bachelor of Education degree at another college (which I later decided I hated and dropped out of).

I really regret that I didn't do the Medieval degree.

SultanOfSwing

Late to the party again but my answer is no, I wouldn't.

Most days I can put it to the back of my mind but in my quiet moments the thought that moving here was one of my more stupid decisions always creeps back to the front. I wish that, when presented with the opportunity, I had been smarter and just went along with the idea of my fiancée moving to the UK to live with me instead.

Why the hell did I allow myself to think that spending a few months here was indicative of what it would actually be like to live here. I can be a right stupid bell-end sometimes

Uncle Ebenezer

It's what you make it. If you're determined to make it a crap experience, that's probably what you'll end up with.

Sally Redux

Why doesn't that hold true for living in the UK?

Uncle Ebenezer

It's a different kettle of fish - I'm talking about the difference between staying somewhere you've lived the whole of your life and trying a new adventure. (The clue was in the thread title.)