Dan725

Very true indeed. This applies to a lot of things here. Despite many surface efforts to appear contrary, it boils down to this at the end of the day.

Dan725

Yep, the reason that expenditure is so high is due to the insurance comapanies and medical billers creating needless "paper exercise" jobs that serve no purpose other than line their pockets.

Dan725

NHS not without its faults - but at least its there. If people are not satisfied with the NHS, they can always join BUPA or similar - all at a fraction of the cost of private cover here in the US - and then you will have top notch healthcare.

The reason why private healthcare is so much cheaper in the UK than it is in the US is that it fits within the framework laid by the NHS - it is this framework that the US is lacking.

dunroving

Another effect of the litigious culture in the US is the tendency to run every test known to mankind before performing a health procedure.

In 1998, my twin brother and I both injured our left knee the same day (really, no kidding).

My doctor (US) said he'd need to get x-rays and an MRI done (costing several thousand) so that he would know what was needed before performing surgery (this even though it was obvious via a simple manipulation to tell that my medial meniscus was torn).

My brother, on the other hand (UK) had the same manipulation test done, the doc said "It looks like a torn medial meniscus, but when we open you up, if it turns out to be anything else, we'll fix it".

Problem with the US health care system is there is so much wastage of money on unnecessary expensive diagnostic tests.

ukelaine

But, the reason they do all these tests is that they are so scared of being sued !

Elaine

RoadWarriorFromLP

You cribbed that first bit from a man-on-the-street interview of a French woman in Sicko, and it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the American mindset about government.

Americans are not generally intimidated by the government, they just believe that government is incompetent or that as a matter of principle that it is not the government's role to interfere in these matters. Those who oppose health care reform don't want government to have control of the medical care system because they figure that the quality of care will decline if it is government managed.

The French protest because they expect government to fix everything. This concept of shouting down government to get free stuff is a turn-off to a lot of Americans, who tend to mistrust the government and look to charities and their own social networks to get most things done. The French want a blatant embrace of the welfare state, and Americans tend to oppose it just as vigorously.

In theory, I'm more inclined to hold the American view when it comes to suspicion of government. (Consider it genetic, I guess.) Government often doesn't do well with managing its business, and a private sector solution often delivers better results, more efficiently and cheaply. But in the case of health care, it's clear that handing over life-and-death decisions to for-profit insurers is a form of rationing, as the most needy patients are those that drag down profits the most and are the least able to fight back.

Americans need to understand that their worst fears have already been realized -- health care is already rationed, it's just rationed by private corporations who are unaccountable to their customers. I believe that if Americans can see tangible examples of other first-world systems don't result in mass rationing and that don't deny care, then they may come around.

dunroving

Didn't Tony Benn say something similar in the film, also?

ukelaine

I think Americans changing their Health System would be like saying "We were wrong and you were right" They will never do that.

So, while many continue to voice that they are the Greatest Country in the World we will continue to see and hear of horror stories to do with the Medical System. No matter how bad it gets many will not lose face and admit that another system is needed.

We just had a segment on TV about how Hospitals are literally dropping off patients STILL in their hospital gown on Skid Row with video of this poor woman wandering along the street in her gown in the middle of the street with her hospital band still on her wrist and this is America ?

Elaine

dunroving

- they showed similar footage in Sicko. The hospitals often cut off the wristbands before dumping them in a taxi, so no-one could tell that they had been in the hospital. Makes you wonder whether some docs cross their fingers when they take the Hippocratic Oath (maybe it should be called the Hypocritical Oath).

Dan725

I found that bit quite incredibible on the documentary. Amazed that it really happens - the people who make the polikcy to release patients in that state deserve to be in that situation themselves someday.

kingfisher241049

No, they deserve to spend time at the courtesy of the local county, city or state jail for lack of care. Are hospitals in the U.S. bound by the same Duty of Care as the ones in the UK are? Not really sure what the law says about that here.

Dan725

Duty of care to save the insurance companies and medical billing scum money, it would appear.

ukelaine

I can only assume some were homeless and/or had mental problems. But, heck, they coldn't at least DRESS them before dumping them ?

Elaine

snowbunny

There is no such thing as free.

Where does the government get its money from?

More like give the *people* a bigger slice of the pie vs all the pork and favours to lobbyists and their employers.

rincewind

I don't mind paying taxes. What I do mind is what the government does with my money.

I don't enjoy funding the terrorist activities in Iraq with my tax dollars.