Guns?
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
The trouble is, even with a gun you haven't got a hope anyway once the mugger had pulled the gun. The criminal has the upper hand 99% of the time because they know exactly what they are going to do.
It comes down to how people are. The majority of people wander around under the illusion that bad things happen to other people and even then the authorities will sort it out for them. They are sadly very surprised when both these turn out to be false.
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
What's needed is a way to address the wider issues related to people mugging each other.
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
Because you're assuming everyone obeys the law. How many of the gun related homicides were with legal weapons?
Im assuming nothing of the sort. I KNOW that people dont obey the law. It used to be my job to stop that.
You need to clarify that question. Do you mean by people who were legally entitled to hold that gun? Or by weapons that are not federally banned?
#93
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Originally Posted by ImHere
I disagree. Most of the time they havent got a clue what they are going to do. Your average street punk is generally clueless and will freak as much as most people.
It comes down to how people are. The majority of people wander around under the illusion that bad things happen to other people and even then the authorities will sort it out for them. They are sadly very surprised when both these turn out to be false.
It comes down to how people are. The majority of people wander around under the illusion that bad things happen to other people and even then the authorities will sort it out for them. They are sadly very surprised when both these turn out to be false.
It's not related to how stupid the criminal is, it's more to do with them thinking "OK I'm gonna walk up behind this guy, put a gun to his head and ask for his cash." That is all he needs to be thinking and he already has the upper hand unless you want to live your life in fear and always be thinking "Is that a mugger behind me, or just someone out for a late night stroll?".
#94
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Originally Posted by ImHere
Im assuming nothing of the sort. I KNOW that people dont obey the law. It used to be my job to stop that.
You need to clarify that question. Do you mean by people who were legally entitled to hold that gun? Or by weapons that are not federally banned?
You need to clarify that question. Do you mean by people who were legally entitled to hold that gun? Or by weapons that are not federally banned?
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Dant3
So I'm presuming then that those small midwestern towns in the 19th century, where every man had a gun hanging from his belt, never experienced violence.
Do criminals prefer homes that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer cars that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer easy targets? Of course they do.
Listen, if you are happy walking around under the illusion that nothing bad will ever happen to you and the police will be there if it does, then dont let me stop you.
#96
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Originally Posted by ImHere
Of course they did. But humans will always be stupid as well as violent.
Do criminals prefer homes that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer cars that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer easy targets? Of course they do.
Listen, if you are happy walking around under the illusion that nothing bad will ever happen to you and the police will be there if it does, then dont let me stop you.
Do criminals prefer homes that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer cars that arent alarmed to rob? Of course.
Do criminals prefer easy targets? Of course they do.
Listen, if you are happy walking around under the illusion that nothing bad will ever happen to you and the police will be there if it does, then dont let me stop you.
a) Will your house get burgled even with an alarm - yes
b) Will your car get stolen even with an alarm - yes
c) Could you get killed in a mugging even though you have a gun - yes
Having a gun is like fire fighting, the problem is already there.
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
By someone who was legally entitled to have a gun (any gun).
As far as legally entitled to own a gun then (in most states) that would be any non-felon and those not convicted of certain violent misdemeanours. It it unlikely that many deliberate homicides have been commited by those.
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
Yes, we all know it could happen. But
a) Will your house get burgled even with an alarm - yes
b) Will your car get stolen even with an alarm - yes
c) Could you get killed in a mugging even though you have a gun - yes
Having a gun is like fire fighting, the problem is already there.
a) Will your house get burgled even with an alarm - yes
b) Will your car get stolen even with an alarm - yes
c) Could you get killed in a mugging even though you have a gun - yes
Having a gun is like fire fighting, the problem is already there.
#99
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Originally Posted by ImHere
I dont have those figures to hand, but I do believe that there has never been a felony commited by someone who has a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon.
As far as legally entitled to own a gun then (in most states) that would be any non-felon and those not convicted of certain violent misdemeanours. It it unlikely that many deliberate homicides have been commited by those.
As far as legally entitled to own a gun then (in most states) that would be any non-felon and those not convicted of certain violent misdemeanours. It it unlikely that many deliberate homicides have been commited by those.
#100
Forum Regular




Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 287
From: Leeds to Los Angeles











Originally Posted by ImHere
Listen, if you are happy walking around under the illusion that nothing bad will ever happen to you and the police will be there if it does, then dont let me stop you.
#101
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Originally Posted by ImHere
But in all cases you are far less likely to have it happen. Personally I prefer to be responsible for my own personal protection.
From this page: http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm
A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present.
-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Dant3
You know, that is EXACTLY the illusion I wish to walk around under. In fact, it's the illusion I've been walking around under my whole life. It's an illusion that has led me into friendships with people I shouldn't have been friends with and led me into fascinating areas of cities I should never have stepped foot in. For all your pessimistic view of humanity, I remain absolutely convinced that the vast and overwhelming majority of people are good and honest people, and until one of them prooves otherwise, I will continue to treat them as such.
Good for you. I dont have a pessimistic view of society, more a realistic one. Having dealt for many years with the dregs of society I know what people are capable of and plenty have proven to me what they can and will do. Yet I too will go to places sense tells me not to and engage people who I probably shouldnt. I am just not under any illusions about them.
#103
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











Here's a surprising fact:
Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 56% of total 2002 gun deaths nationwide. In 2002, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 17,108, a 1% increase from 2001 numbers. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2002 were 466, a decrease of 8% from the 2001 numbers. Most suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
#104
Lost in BE Cyberspace










Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,596











and another one:
While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)
#105
Forum Regular




Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 287
From: Leeds to Los Angeles











Originally Posted by ImHere
Good for you. I dont have a pessimistic view of society, more a realistic one. Having dealt for many years with the dregs of society I know what people are capable of and plenty have proven to me what they can and will do. Yet I too will go to places sense tells me not to and engage people who I probably shouldnt. I am just not under any illusions about them.



