Giantaxe

The reality is that some parents lie about this stuff for a variety of reasons. Fear of embarrassment. Fear that their kid won't be allowed to attend etc.

kodokan

But from the point of view of the organisation it IS necessary, vitally so, because they will get sued for zillions if one of the campers keels over and dies halfway through a long hike. Of COURSE from their point of view it's to cover their asses, and nothing to do with caring about the kids' well-being; in the majority of summer camps they've never even met these kids before. They don't know if Little Johnny is being packed off because his parents have finally decided that he spends too much time playing computer games and eating Cheetos, and should get some fresh air and exercise, damn it, even if he does complain that he gets breathless and light-headed whenever he runs.

Some parents send their kids to summer camp BECAUSE they don't do any other sports or extracurriculars year-round, and think it will be good for Little Johnny to get fit and make some friends in the real world rather than the Internet. They will genuinely have no clue whether LJ is physically capable of doing several weeks of strenuous outdoor activities, and even if they had a pretty good idea he couldn't (and would therefore be a drag on the group, not because they're thinking he might keel over), they'd lie in case he otherwise didn't get admitted.

For DL's kid, the medical is almost certainly not necessary, but the summer camp's head organisation doesn't know that. They usually don't know any of these kids until they step off the bus one bright Saturday afternoon.

So a 5 minute medical it is. The alternative is that summer camps with physically-demanding activities stop running, and I don't want that to happen.

And, as a side benefit, it really doesn't kill for an almost-teen to take a once-a-year 5 minute interest in his health, and to start to develop a doctor-patient relationship. In a year or two, his parents won't be in the room with him, having the conversation for him, and he might be at an age where he doesn't want to have conversations with them about personal medical stuff at home. What does he do then, given no-one's ever told him that doctors are friendly, approachable people who he can see just for a general chat; that he doesn't actually have to have a temperature of 104 or be passing out with pain to visit one?

Sally Redux

Kodokan, thanks for a thoughtful reply.

The thread has raised some interesting points but if it were me I would mutter a bit and go along with it, more important for the boy to go and have fun (my son wasn't in the scouts so it didn't come up). So Dlake I think that's what you should do. Minimize the importance of it for your son and just look forward to the camp.

kodokan

Sally's nailed it . We can all stop now *breathes sigh of relief* - if only she'd typed this 12 pages ago!

dlake02

Unfortunately, whilst we are stuck here, we have no choice.

Isn't that strange ? No choice in the land of "free !"

The more time I spend here, the more I feel this is as much a police state as any of the old Eastern Bloc. Conformity, expectations, do not question authority, etc.

We HAVE to get back to the UK at the end of middle school - the sooner my son learns that rules exist to be challenged not slavishly obeyed, the better.

Ho hum.

Lion in Winter

Just pointing out that you can teach him that. I have mine.

And there are plenty of very intelligent, thoughtful people in this country too, many of whom want to make both this country and the world a better place. It is better not to generalize about, and condemn, an entire country and people - that is a very right-wing characteristic (not saying you are, just that it is). There is plenty to criticize about the UK, too, yet we would defend it against similar generalizations.

dlake02

There are MANY intelligent, thoughtful people in this country. In fact, 53% of the country are intelligent and thoughtful judging by the last election.

It's just that they are being drowned out by the noises from the 47%.

There is PLENTY to criticise in the UK, and it is right to be critical and question. My gut feel, having lived here 2 years, is that people in the UK and EU in general are much more comfortable telling a jumped-up official or stupid rule-maker exactly where to get off. In both my personal and professional life here, I generally find that people obey, without question, rules, regulations, forms, mandates, etc, etc.

If you do that, you are driven by the system rather than driving the system, and I sense a lot of people here have a fatalistic view of "it's the system - we have to do it."

I find that a very oppressive atmosphere to live in.

Sally Redux

One - bide your time. Two - keep your nose clean. And three - don't let the bastards grind you down.

N1cky

The look on peoples faces when you tell them that you don't have to carry ID in the UK always makes me smile. They just can't seem to understand it

dlake02

HA !!! I used to have "nil carborundum illegitimi" on my email signature at work in the UK. I was asked to remove it here in the US as it "may cause offence."

Within ************, we have a mailing list called "clueless." It covers most of the world but is mostly frequented by our American friends. There has been a heated debate about the rights and wrong of Internet financing, the overwhelming conclusion being that the US model of free-market financing is RIGHT whilst the EU model of public/private operators with government subsidies is WRONG (discussion kicked off around why is the US the most expensive and slowest in terms of Broadband in the developed world from the NY Times.).

Anyway, to cut a long story short, one American contributor put some crap about how you cannot have government subsidies for anything because that is a Nanny-State, and the US is Free. When I mentioned that as a European with experience of living in five countries across two continents I found the US Nanny-"State" (bringing up this example of mandated health tests by a private organisation) to be far more oppressive and conformist than anything I'd experienced in the EU, the audience split along EU/US lines to-a-man.

Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum

JRG67

Gambatte!

MsElui

we have done various boy scout camps and been required to do the medical forms. HOWEVER- the camps we have done have only required some PARTS of the form to be completed - ie we have not yet HAD to have done the physical exam sheet. If this was required - I would simply give the form to our regular pediatrician and ask them to complete the form based on his last wellcheck visit (annual). SO ASK if you have to do EVERY part of the form.

my son has adhd and has quarterly medicine checkups to ensure he is doing okay - and they take blood pressure every time. Last week he had croup and was seen at the urgent care and they also took his blood pressure. The first time he was ever required to get the blood pressure taken was at his green card medical and he pitched an absolute fit at the thing squeezing his arm - but totally takes it in his stride now.

Mr Weeze

Why not take a family holiday to an adventure-type place?

dlake02

Been here two years. Never been to see a GP. Isn't a pediatrician a bit OTT for a 5 minute check-up ? Bit like insisting that The Queen personally signs your next passport....

Yes - it's every part if away for over 72 hours. YMCA overnight camps require a psychological assessment in California !!!!

Now what is really winding me up about this is that a) when we told them at Cubs that son had been away for 4 or 5 night camps 3 times a year with Cubs in the UK since aged 5, they looked at us with utter disbelief ! The FIRST time some of the children had ever spent a night away from their parents was for 5th Grade Science camp !

So, he is used to being away from home, under canvass, etc, etc. Very well-adjusted child, highly independent, very much an individual with his own thoughts and a VERY healthy dis-regard for authority and rules, but a very strong sense of moral right-and-wrong and building some political views (aged 11 !) that are to the left of mine. I have hope for the future....

But, I'm obviously a nasty horrible ogre that really cares nothing for the medical health of his child and would gladly palm him off at the first opportunity.

dlake02

Why do kids need to be glued to their parents 24/7 and 365/365 ? Cub Scouts here is SO lame with far too much parental involvement and molly-coddling.

We take two/three "family" holidays per year, one back to the UK to see family, two doing "things" whilst we are here. See the country, etc.

As he is an only-child, it is important that he learns to interact with other children, and Scouts and camp is a great place to do that - to learn independence from their parents. So, for 2-3 weeks per year, he LOVES to go out camping with other kids, get away from his parents, etc. Makes it all the more lovely when he comes back - after he's had a shower....

Didn't you used to go away several times a year with school, Cubs, Scouts, etc ? I know I did from age 5, as did my wife.....