sir_eccles

Ugh. Stop blaming the victim, from what I've read he did exactly what he was supposed to do. He declared is carry permit to the officer politely and yet he was executed for a broken tail light.

Frankly your whiteness is showing again. None of us can truly know what it is like to be caught Driving While Black. I've only been stopped a couple of times yet always in the end just waved off. A friend who is white has an adopted daughter from Ethiopia. He was just telling us how despite having a good well paid job she is constantly multiple times a day stopped for driving a nice car in a nice neighborhood.

Pulaski

Check the reports again. He was digging in his door, or somewhere for his license, permit, or .... Not that it matters because the police officer didn't know what he was doing, which is why the incident escalated.

I am tired of reading your insults, so didn't finish reading your post, but the fact of the matter is that police across the country conduct thousands of stops every day, by all accounts disproportionately of black men, and the overwhelming majority of stops cause no problems. It's not a question of "blaming the victim", it's a question of survival. If you ignore instructions and/or start digging around out of sight of the officer things can turn ugly.

And BTW you know nothing about me, but I suspect I have more contact with "African Americans" than most of the white population, so less of the "thinking while white", thanks. But on the flip side, you appear to have little or no knowledge, or experience of, or sympathy with, the police officers who are response for law enforcement and the difficulties they face in carrying out their job for the benefit of the large majority of the population.

And the funny thing is that, with the increased use of police dashcams and body cams, from everything I have seen and read, the video footage is vindicating many more officers than it condemns. A couples of years ago a black man was shot in Charlotte, NC, and the initial news reports were quite shocking, but when the case went to trial, the video footage was largely consistent with the police reports but bore little resemblance to the media reports, and the mayor's statement, immense after the incident. The officer was not convicted.

SultanOfSwing

Forget everything else. From broken tail light to dead is all kinds of ****ed up.

Hiro11

Of course not, and I never suggested it did. However, clearly doing what the officer says is a good idea. Also, I fundamentally disagree with your point. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a populace in a democracy that distrusts its government more than the US.

Again, I fundamentally disagree. A police officer is not just some guy bossing you around. Within certain limits, they DO have power over you, you MUST do what they say. You can of course choose to "not respect them" but you MUST do what they say.


That's just it. You probably know this (and I apologize, I don't mean to patronize you if you do) but policing "petty crime" more harshly is not some random event, it's part of a deliberate strategy. The main shift in US policing strategy over the past thirty years is "broken window" policing: taking minor infractions seriously and dealing with them seriously. This came out of William Bratton's (the police Commissioner of NYC) policing philosophy which has since been adopted all over the country. Clearly crime experts believe it works and the statistics seem to bear that out.

Neither do I, but I think it's a little unfair to say "the rest of the world figured this out" without at least trying to propose something.


The US is not Germany or Japan, obviously. The same strategies that work in those places wouldn't work here, obviously. Yes, muder happens more frequently here in the US but far less frequently than it did. You seem to be implying that the US isn't doing anything about crime or policing. You also seem to be implying that things are worse or particuarly horrible right now. Neither point is true.

On this we agree. Why is the police force buying so much military surplus gear? Why do police officers seem to love to dress up like para-military black ops guys? What do so many police officers seem to escalate situations when they should be seeking to defuse situations (something I've seen personally many, many times)? Why do police forces seem to solely recruit super-macho jerks craving a power trip? I've personally never had any positive interaction with a police officer, every interaction has been insulting and degrading (and I'm a white male). I'm sure there are good cops out there but based on my experience, they're the minority. Yes, I believe in following police instructions exactly, however I'm not a fan of the police either.

sir_eccles

Many recruits are veterans, while they may have served well in the armed forces and deserve to do something when they leave, I would question if they all have the right mind set for police work. Much more has to be done in regards to training to ensure it is a police service rather than a police force.

lansbury

The video I have seen starts after the guy was shot, and was taken from in front of the officer towards him, so didn't represent his field of vision. Is there another video. If not how do any of you know what happened?

SultanOfSwing

I think the UK might give it a run for its money on that one these days.

We're not really too far off here, really. As I said, I'm a good enough actor to make myself act respectful during any stop, but I'm also not going to do anything at all unless they ask me to as well. I'll just sit there and look at them until they need a question answered or a document produced. It's like immigration, speak when spoken to and say no more than is necessary.

In general terms though, I don't have to treat them like gods either, nor do I have to (actually it's against my interest to) go above and beyond either. Simple answers.

I didn't know that, and I can't say I think it's a good idea, but that's for people who make the big bribes to make decisions on, I suppose, right?

Luckily I'm not running for office, so I can get away with hyperbole ...

It's not really what I was getting at. If I was being misleading, that's my fault.

The only implication should be that perhaps the US isn't doing the right things, or at least the best things about crime or policing. It's not worse, just better covered so it appears worse. That these problems exist at all is maybe something worth looking at a bit close, though.

Right, I knew we weren't too far off on this one.

You being in Chicago itself will see it a lot worse than I do up here. It's all corruption my me. My town was where that one shot himself because he was stealing from the kids explorer funds. Quarter mile from my house, actually.

DebzinUS

[/Quote] Why do police forces seem to solely recruit super-macho jerks craving a power trip? [/QUOTE]

What evidence do you have for this statement? Do you even have any idea what the recruitment process is? When you make a statement like that you are talking about my son, his name is David and he is far from being a macho jerk. You don't know him, or likely any other of the 600,000 police officers in this country. So let me tell you about him. He is 24 yrs old, he works in a city police Dept. in the deep south. He strapped on his bullet proof vest this morning, and went to work in a job he loves. I tried to get him to join the Met, where he would be a damn sight safer than he is here, but no, he wanted to work in the community where he grew up. Oh, and he was paid yesterday - $877.00 and no, thats not a week.

Pulaski

Yeah, entry level policing is very poorly paid in small town America. The pay in the town nearest me is shockingly low, .... and they require a degree for you to be hired! I have no idea why someone would put themselves through four years of study only to take such a job, but as with the teachers, we should be thankful that they do.

dc koop

The problem with white cops shooting black people is that there's never much information given by the media as to what led up to it. The family or friends of the person shot always state that the cops over reacted, the person wasn't doing anything wrong, wasn't offering any resistance.

The only time I could actually see that a shooting was completely and utterly unjustified was when the black man being chased by the white cop was shot several times in the back. The rest remains largely a case of not knowing the full and complete facts

DebzinUS

The city we live in has a population of 250,000. Not really small town, but not Atlanta either. My kid has a degree. He never wanted to do anything else. All I can is support him and hope he gets a pay raise soon so he can move out!

dc koop

Deleted

lansbury

No one ever did the job for the money we did/do it for the love of The Job and for the difference we made/make to the communities we serve(d). Which is a lot more than most of those posting derogatory comments about something seen in a video and an incomplete one at that can say about their own contributions to society.

But those who have it worse are the families of officers. They know all the fear and the worry and can do nothing but wait. For them there should be a very special place in our hearts.

mrken30

The Police in the US vary so much even across one county. A small police department of 3 to 4 police have a very different mentality to a large sheriffs department.

I think the system would work better if we had county wide police, or even multiple counties. A similar scenario to the UK.Also professionalizing the Police would go a long way.

It is crazy that the Police are now using bombs against civilian targets.

White people have a sense of uneasiness around black people as a generalization.

The Police need an independent body overseeing their actions.

There are some Police officers that should never be armed. This will never happen in the US. The Police office that shot that guy with the kid in the back seat is in total shock. The girl friend thought the police officer asked for ID, which is quite likely . The police officer should have probably directed him to get out of the car. Should I stop carrying my wallet in my pocket when driving the car?

The Police unions need to be busted if we are to get any police reform in this country.

The US police are so different to the UK police.

Me and my wife have decided to raise our kids to not trust the police. My and my wife have both had personal experience of the power happiness of a particular police chief. Who got fired eventually, but is now mayor.

The biggest problem in this country is capitalism and religious extremism. People cannot afford to raise their kids properly and are not given the resources or time to look after their kids. This is a social problem that needs fixing. There may be a reason why we have a problem and the average US person works many more hours than an equivalent European or Asian.

mrken30

That's exactly how black people feel.