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The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Old Jun 26th 2014, 8:50 am
  #106  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
At least they get paid either way.
Sort of. The government is wanting blood before paying out.

GP income (per partner) has dropped year on year for the last five or so years with increased work load.

GPs are dropping like flies.

The other forum I spend the most of my time on is a UK doctor site, doctors.net.uk which is for doctors.
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Old Jun 26th 2014, 9:49 am
  #107  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Ozzidoc View Post
Sort of. The government is wanting blood before paying out.

GP income (per partner) has dropped year on year for the last five or so years with increased work load.
But what is that GP income figure ?

The last contract settlement seemed very generous, on the face of it.
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Old Jun 26th 2014, 4:05 pm
  #108  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by steveq View Post
But what is that GP income figure ?

The last contract settlement seemed very generous, on the face of it.

The last contract, in 2003, took average incomes from 40K to around 80-90K. Yes, it was considered attractive. I don't know all the details, but am aware that there were to be no named doctors and that the out of hours responsibilities could be given up for for 6k a year. GP co-ops were formed, sharing the out of hours work for additional payment.

Now the drawings figures are back to 60-70K, I understand from GP colleagues.

Yes, the Daily Fail will always mentioned the few GPs on 250K. But they are people, just like many others, who have diversified their investments so also have property. ie "What do you do with your time or for work?" vs "how do you earn your money?"

Side note: I had to explain the difference to a US immigration official when they were questioning "what I did".

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Old Jun 26th 2014, 4:12 pm
  #109  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Ozzidoc View Post
Now the drawings figures are back to 60-70K, I understand from GP colleagues.
And the weekly hours ?
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 12:42 am
  #110  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by steveq View Post
And the weekly hours ?
Most GPs self employed so to get a concrete figure very hard surveys have said a full time GP between 60-70 hrs per week yes this is no joke and probably why all GPs going to Oz or Canada or if they got the desire for more exams the US!
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 1:18 am
  #111  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
This is one reason why I dislike the NHS model. As Boiler points out, they'll get paid by the government either way. There really is little incentive to improve service under such circumstances, but at the first mention of trying to introduce competition into the NHS we get squeals of horror as to how the system is being "Americanized". Wtf is wrong with competition and the private provision of public services?
The NHS has some very powerful liberal left wing lobbyists that think it should be there no matter what and the say any old crap to maintain that. Also it is such a big political swing factor. I doubt any party would say anything against it as its an election killer. They all know its failing they just wont say it.

Also there is a lot of bollocks anti US spin in the UK. Like any mention of privatization they will talk about US this that and frankly talk crap. That said the NHS is already mostly privatized by stealth so go figure.

GP wrote recently why NHS failing ......these ppl below are wasting consultations for such kinds of things and many more

1 A gentleman used an appointment to thank me for treating his gout. He was fine and didn’t want any more treatment; he just wanted to say ‘thanks’.

2 A lady came to tell me how she’d got on after her operation. Like I wouldn’t get a letter about it, although admittedly not for a month or two.

3 Another lady brought her podgy teenager in, told me he didn’t like having his toenails cut, and asked if it would be possible for them to be done under a general anaesthetic (that one was a very short consultation).


If any of the above had a $20 co pay you think they would bother coming in with such nonsense? I not seen anything like this in the US well not yet! LOL
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 3:39 am
  #112  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by notshipman View Post
If any of the above had a $20 co pay you think they would bother coming in with such nonsense? I not seen anything like this in the US well not yet! LOL
Agree, though I did see a jovial woman in ER (here in the US) laughing and joking with the check-in staff about how she'd had a bit of pain all week in her back and she'd forgotten to make an appointment so she came to ER this Friday night instead. Standing up perfectly well mind you. Now we shouldn't diagnose from just being within earshot of somebody but it appeared she was quite happy to pay $80 for ER treatment (yes we couldn't not hear the price either)! Unusual I admit but even so.

I did email my (US) doctor a couple of times to say thanks but each time it got intercepted by an RN who seemed to think I wanted more treatment so that was a bit of a waste of their time, hence I don't do it anymore.

Problem with co-pays is when the little old lady dies because she thinks she can't afford a doctor visit, might have been a cheap dose of aspirin to keep her alive. Make it means-tested and the benefit cheats will milk the system. No easy solution really.

Last edited by GeoffM; Jun 27th 2014 at 3:42 am.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 3:45 am
  #113  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

So what do you do?

In an era of no growth of consequence, increasing expectations and demand.

Interesting bit in the Guardian about how there will be soon as many over 85 as there were over 65 coupled with rising obesity etc.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 4:36 am
  #114  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Reduction in GP funding puts entire NHS at risk, BMA conference to hear
Doctors' leader to warn that general practice is 'imploding', with patients often waiting two weeks for appointments

Reduction in GP funding puts entire NHS at risk, BMA conference to hear | Society | The Guardian

They also want to ban cigarettes, like that will work.
Only 2 weeks? I'll take that short of a waiting time for a GP...

My GP has a 6 to 8 week lead time for appointments, I called today and first appointment is in mid August, and this is the norm.

Anything urgent goes to the walk in clinics.

(BC Canada of course)
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 6:07 am
  #115  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Only 2 weeks? I'll take that short of a waiting time for a GP...

My GP has a 6 to 8 week lead time for appointments, I called today and first appointment is in mid August, and this is the norm.

Anything urgent goes to the walk in clinics.

(BC Canada of course)
KP.org, next available appointment with my doctor, Monday July 7th at 2:50pm. But if you try for a same-day early enough in the morning then quite often you'll get one.

Back in the UK it was pretty much the same for my GP, assuming you could (a) get through on the premium rate phone number; (b) get past the witch in reception who knew nothing about medicine but ultimately decided whether you got one of the precious urgent slots or not.

And, under our plan, urgent care was the same co-pay as normal Dr visits so yes we've done that too - and never waited more than an hour.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 7:31 am
  #116  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by GeoffM View Post
KP.org, next available appointment with my doctor, Monday July 7th at 2:50pm. But if you try for a same-day early enough in the morning then quite often you'll get one.

Back in the UK it was pretty much the same for my GP, assuming you could (a) get through on the premium rate phone number; (b) get past the witch in reception who knew nothing about medicine but ultimately decided whether you got one of the precious urgent slots or not.

And, under our plan, urgent care was the same co-pay as normal Dr visits so yes we've done that too - and never waited more than an hour.
I never had an issue with Kaiser, I was always able to get an appointment same day, but it was 40 or 50 dollar co-pay, the insurance through work was pretty lame and most of the cost was on us, the monthly premium was almost as much as a individual policy, but I had pre-existing so had to go through work even though it was a poor coverage policy.

Some GP's here will save a % of appointments for same day, some wont, varies GP to GP, mine doesn't. GP's are paid per visit here, so salary varies greatly and who knows how much the doctor gets after expenses such as staff, and office space and such.

My doctor for example was reimbursed 264,000 last year, but he has 2 on staff, and a large practice, so who knows how much he actually made after staff are paid, and his expenses are paid.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 8:49 am
  #117  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Our GP surgery here in the UK does have an appointment service, but also has a daily walk-in service every morning, you just amble in, get listed with the receptionist and then take a seat and wait, may take a couple of hours to get seen, but at least you do get seen.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 9:16 am
  #118  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
Our GP surgery here in the UK does have an appointment service, but also has a daily walk-in service every morning, you just amble in, get listed with the receptionist and then take a seat and wait, may take a couple of hours to get seen, but at least you do get seen.
That is how ours is set up too. It seems to work pretty well. If you want an appointment with a particular doctor you may have to book further in advance, but if you just need to see a doctor because you feel like cr&p you can see one that morning so long as you arrive before 10am.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 9:35 am
  #119  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
I never had an issue with Kaiser, I was always able to get an appointment same day, but it was 40 or 50 dollar co-pay, the insurance through work was pretty lame and most of the cost was on us, the monthly premium was almost as much as a individual policy, but I had pre-existing so had to go through work even though it was a poor coverage policy.

Some GP's here will save a % of appointments for same day, some wont, varies GP to GP, mine doesn't. GP's are paid per visit here, so salary varies greatly and who knows how much the doctor gets after expenses such as staff, and office space and such.

My doctor for example was reimbursed 264,000 last year, but he has 2 on staff, and a large practice, so who knows how much he actually made after staff are paid, and his expenses are paid.
Its been about 10 years but I sure miss Kaiser Permanente. My family had them for about 18 years and never had a quarrel with any of their practices or results. I was self employed though, so it wasn't cheap.
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Old Jun 27th 2014, 11:19 am
  #120  
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Default Re: The NHS 'is the world's best healthcare system'....

Originally Posted by lizzyq View Post
That is how ours is set up too. It seems to work pretty well. If you want an appointment with a particular doctor you may have to book further in advance, but if you just need to see a doctor because you feel like cr&p you can see one that morning so long as you arrive before 10am.
Wait till you get to the US pay your co pays before getting out of reception and probably spend more time filling forms than with the doctors. Here GPs see 15 a day max generally unlike 50 as in the UK
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