But if the minimum wage is raised too high where it causes the job participation rate to drop, then "Joe Taxpayer" pays even more since there will be even more people and a larger amount that the government needs to pay for benefits.

I'm not against raising the minimum wage but there is a fine line where raising it too much can be very detrimental to the economy as well as the taxpayer.

Yes indeed. The new american dream seems to be work for as little money as possible, have little if any vacation, expensive healthcare and so on.

I just don't know anyone personally who is not struggling in the US, some have degrees, some don't so its a mix of different educations and skill levels, but all struggle with making more then 12-13 per hour. All live in San Diego and that wage there is not sufficient to meet ones needs.

I didn't see it at the time, and it was not planned and just kind of happened as I fell for a Canadian, but looking back, I probably have better life here then I would back home, the healthcare alone would be financially crippling, let alone housing, food, and all that jazz.

You can say low wage people don't work hard (you as in general not anyone specifically) and that is why they don't get ahead, but hard work alone will not get you anywhere, and plenty of low wage people work hard, some working multiple jobs and spending little time at home, but if your with an employer who has no desire to pay a reasonable wage, no amount of hard work is going to get you ahead.

But what is the solution? The same is occurring throughout the developed world as the world became a global economy and technology made that possible. Overall the US is no worse off than most other developed countries where it's median income has a similar relationship to other developed countries as it had 20-30 years ago. The US may have lost some ground against some countries such as Norway but has held it's ground against countries such as Switzerland, Germany, UK, and Canada and has gained against countries such as France, Japan, Spain, and Italy. Unless someone discovers a magic bullet or in the case of countries such as Canada, Australia, and Norway which has excess natural resources to export that drives the economy or a tax haven economy, there is very little that can be done.

Educating people better will help a bit but there are only so many high paying jobs and all developed economies need a large number of workers to provide basic services. The only thing that would have a major impact would be to create good paying manufacturing jobs that exports products but with so many countries that will perform those jobs for a very low wage, that is going to be a difficult task to accomplish. Very few people will be willing to pay even 10% more for a product made in their country if they can find the same product but 10% less and made in another country.

Countries can try economics like Japan but that obviously doesn't work since the country has basically been in a 20+ year recession and went from a surplus to a national debt of nearly 250% of gdp.

Here is an example of government subsiding because of low wages.

Employee earns 15,000 in a year.

Is considered low income so gets 100% premium subsidy. $1,506 per year.

Receives almost everything back at tax filing time $1,500

Receives a sales tax credit due to low income, paid every quarter. $912

Receives 100% covered medication. $2,760

Receives $570 rent subsidy due to high rental costs in the region. $6,840

Total direct payments from government for being low income: $13,518

This was for a childless adult couple, 1 working, 1 not working due to disability and unable to work.

I'll take out the 1,500 tax refund since its technically persons income, but that still leaves 12,080 in direct government assistance.

I don't know what the solution is, but low wage jobs only save a company money, and the government ends up on the hook for the rest so people don't end up homeless and starving.

You can certainly tell when dollar stores are the fastest growing retailer in a country that more and more people are hurting. I am kind of scared for the future, especially when my generation goes into retirement in 30-40 years and have insufficient retirement or none at all since companies have largely stopped offering that benefit as well. I certainly won't have the money to retire, so once my health fades and I can't work, I'll be reliant on the government. Not something I planned on doing, but even with schooling, I am only looking at 15-18 per hour.

My first thought was that Medical looks low, but a good illustration as to what constitutes means, not just wages.

I think the confusion is that there had been a move after WW2 to a significant part of the population moving up the food chain.

All these thing are relative but my thoughts is that there is a limited demand for these roles and as things have averaged out world wide then the wage distribution has gone back to a more normal historical pattern.

Good for you! Good luck.

I remember reading another thread where you said it was maths that got you stuck in the past. And I also remember reading that Pulaski said your writing skills were good, so it seemed like you were degree material. I agree with that. I am sure you can find degrees where math is at a minimum. And also, perhaps you should get yourself evaluated for dyscalculia. If you do have that, perhaps you can get an exemption.

You must be joking.
I get the feeling people have kids because they are idiots or because it helps them get various government benefits.

Awww pppleease! It's not about the efficacy of the methods - I'm guessing for about 80% of "unwanted" pregnancies - but about the stupidity of the people. They either weren't using the/any method, or were using it incorrectly.

How do you think the standards of basic education factors into all this? Whenever I interact with people I am guessing are earning minimum wage in the USA, with the rare very pleasant exception, I always get the feeling that the person is rather stupid. (Sorry, I really don't mean to offend anyone). So assuming that the person wasn't inherently stupid but just became stupid due to lack of better education, do you think that raising the standard of basic education can help with the dilemma of minimum wages?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

Try a trip to the DMV, which is not minimum wage.

So you're saying even people not on min wage can be stupid? So what's your point? (I don't want to make it for you)

From what I have come across the correlation is limited.

To raise the minimum wage significantly, you have to raise the standard of living for the middle class.

There is said to be over 3 million jobs currently available and many are highly paid blue collar jobs. Unfortunately the skills in the workforce don't match the skills needed for those positions and also unfortunately, companies don't want the expense of training people on their products. Although there may be many machinists out of work and there may be many machinist positions open, the skill sets are not an exact match so the jobs remain unfilled.

At one time a computer technician could make a decent living but now technical schools still train technicians but it is very difficult to make a decent living being a technician. With computers being so cheap and depreciate very quickly, paying $200-$300 to repair a computer usually doesn't make much sense and even at that price, often the technician makes very little per hour after costs for parts, communications with the customer, and invoicing.

Others get college degrees that does not have job prospects so they end up working in low paying jobs.

As I stated, improving or changing the educational system will help but not to a significant degree.

Because everyone lives in a perfect world.

And education isn't really the answer, when you're paying off over $100K student debt that isn't forgiven while one's unemployed and can't even get a minimum wage job for being "over qualified".

Minimum wage around here, means someone that has a kid, to afford rent and childcare would need to work at least 3 jobs and do about 100 hours to barely break even....and that's pretty much rent.

I think you live with your head in the clouds.